Islam and the West
Discussion
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28148943
Planning to train the rebels who comprise of ISIS etc. Ridiculous. The US and UK training and arming terrorist groups. Hypocrisy to the max.
Planning to train the rebels who comprise of ISIS etc. Ridiculous. The US and UK training and arming terrorist groups. Hypocrisy to the max.
KareemK said:
technogogo said:
Why not give the money to an org like Red Crescent and volunteer to work for them? Why try the DIY route. Is it vanity to some extent?
Well, the obvious answer I suppose is that 'perhaps' they want to hand the money out to a specific village or community to which they have family or other ties.Just giving it to an organisation wont result in your actual brother, sister, mother etc being any better off next week than she is this week. Personally handing out cash to the community you care for will. If my gran had been dispossessed of her home and belongings I'd not be giving my earnings to the red cross in the vain hope that in 5 years time she'd get a couple of tins of beans out of it - not a chance - I'd be going over with cash to help her regroup and rebuild.
This is what died in this country a long time ago - a sense of caring for (and looking after) your actual family with self-sacrifice. Not everyone in the UK but 'generally'. We now pack our elderly and infirm relatives off to homes and the like so that we can continue on undisturbed.
It's a mind-set they have and taking their money away is not the answer unless you have concrete proof that it will be used for terrorist or other unsavoury purposes.
Edited by KareemK on Thursday 3rd July 09:22
Reading your thoughts on the attitude to caring for the elderly, it strikes me that you may be making a lot of assumptions there? Certainly in my family I've seen the complete opposite. Also in other families I'm aware off. In fact friends who live near me make regular efforts helping an very elderly couple who live next door to them. Not even family. The couple's family do visit regularly and they all get together and get on extremely well. Perhaps my experience isn't representative of the wider UK? But I would respectfully suggest you have a rethink on that to see if it is reality? It just feels to me a bit like Daily Mail thinking... things were better in he old days type of thing.
NISMOgtr said:
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28148943
Planning to train the rebels who comprise of ISIS etc. Ridiculous. The US and UK training and arming terrorist groups. Hypocrisy to the max.
But don't the military always have plans for every eventuality. It is a military principle isn't it? So the mere existence of the plan doesn't say anything about how seriously it's use was being considered.Planning to train the rebels who comprise of ISIS etc. Ridiculous. The US and UK training and arming terrorist groups. Hypocrisy to the max.
Good This is more of what's needed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28155683
"Islamic leaders have urged British Muslims not to go to Syria or Iraq amid fears people are travelling there to take part in fighting.
More than 100 imams have signed an open letter urging them to offer help "from the UK in a safe and responsible way".
Security services estimate 500 Britons have gone to Syria to fight.
It comes as one Briton, who claims to be among them, told the BBC he would not return until the flag of Islam was "flying over Buckingham Palace".
Mind you that will be little consolation to the chap who tried to blame his sons radicalisation on whiteys Police Force for not doing enough.
But its just the sort of thing that should be being done.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28155683
"Islamic leaders have urged British Muslims not to go to Syria or Iraq amid fears people are travelling there to take part in fighting.
More than 100 imams have signed an open letter urging them to offer help "from the UK in a safe and responsible way".
Security services estimate 500 Britons have gone to Syria to fight.
It comes as one Briton, who claims to be among them, told the BBC he would not return until the flag of Islam was "flying over Buckingham Palace".
Mind you that will be little consolation to the chap who tried to blame his sons radicalisation on whiteys Police Force for not doing enough.
But its just the sort of thing that should be being done.
technogogo said:
Ah yes to hand cash support directly to family isn't something I'd considered. Though I'm sure how often that is what is taking place for Syria as someone else commented.
In ANY conflict some small amount or percentage of aid money will always 'go missing' these are desperate people living through desperate times so its going to happen. Yes, some will undoubtedly end up in the coffers of the people you don't want it to end up with. Do you think aid sent to Africa is any different? Or any where else come to that. I know how I'd give my donation to these people, by hand. Setting up a monthly direct debit to some foreign aid program won't put food or clothes in my actual families hands if I were related to someone out there.technogogo said:
Reading your thoughts on the attitude to caring for the elderly, it strikes me that you may be making a lot of assumptions there? Certainly in my family I've seen the complete opposite. Also in other families I'm aware off. In fact friends who live near me make regular efforts helping an very elderly couple who live next door to them. Not even family. The couple's family do visit regularly and they all get together and get on extremely well. Perhaps my experience isn't representative of the wider UK? But I would respectfully suggest you have a rethink on that to see if it is reality? It just feels to me a bit like Daily Mail thinking... things were better in he old days type of thing.
I'd argue 'Daily Mail thinking' is more in-line with not allowing people to travel abroad with cash just in case it ends up in the wrong hands than anything I've said.KareemK said:
gpo746: Thats 2 or 3 times you've mentioned "whitey" now. Do you have a point to make? Who's actually blamed "whitey" for anything on this thread?
I think he has an issue with the inference that some people have put forward that the West has created the issues in the ME/terrorism, and I think he seems to think the proponents of that view identify the West as being parochially and pejoratively a homogenous bunch of "Whiteys" (in his words of course).The irony of his own generalisation of Islam is of course wasted on him.
gpo746 said:
Good This is more of what's needed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28155683
"Islamic leaders have urged British Muslims not to go to Syria or Iraq amid fears people are travelling there to take part in fighting.
More than 100 imams have signed an open letter urging them to offer help "from the UK in a safe and responsible way".
Security services estimate 500 Britons have gone to Syria to fight.
It comes as one Briton, who claims to be among them, told the BBC he would not return until the flag of Islam was "flying over Buckingham Palace".
Mind you that will be little consolation to the chap who tried to blame his sons radicalisation on whiteys Police Force for not doing enough.
But its just the sort of thing that should be being done.
BBC news the other week had a reporter (Frank something, he'd been shot in some middle eastern shttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28155683
"Islamic leaders have urged British Muslims not to go to Syria or Iraq amid fears people are travelling there to take part in fighting.
More than 100 imams have signed an open letter urging them to offer help "from the UK in a safe and responsible way".
Security services estimate 500 Britons have gone to Syria to fight.
It comes as one Briton, who claims to be among them, told the BBC he would not return until the flag of Islam was "flying over Buckingham Palace".
Mind you that will be little consolation to the chap who tried to blame his sons radicalisation on whiteys Police Force for not doing enough.
But its just the sort of thing that should be being done.
thole somewhere in the past) going around a town centre answering questions from the public who were concerned about ISIS. They were speaking to a young Muslim lad and the reporter says "Tell us what the Imams are saying to good, young Muslim men such as yourself about not leaving the UK to fight in Syria, etc" and this lad replies "they say that if you believe in the cause then you should join the fight". The reporter then goes on to say something but you see the exact moment he processes what he's just been told and he goes "wait, what? They're saying you should fight?" and the lad says "yes, but only if you believe in the cause... I don't though". It was so awkward.Eta: frank gardner
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28206160
Two women have gone on trial accused of arranging to smuggle cash to fighters in Syria after one was allegedly found with 20,000 euros in her underwear.
You can't blame them for taking a direct approach to things rather than using one of the various "help a fighter abroad" charities.
Two women have gone on trial accused of arranging to smuggle cash to fighters in Syria after one was allegedly found with 20,000 euros in her underwear.
You can't blame them for taking a direct approach to things rather than using one of the various "help a fighter abroad" charities.
gpo746 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28206160
Two women have gone on trial accused of arranging to smuggle cash to fighters in Syria after one was allegedly found with 20,000 euros in her underwear.
You can't blame them for taking a direct approach to things rather than using one of the various "help a fighter abroad" charities.
Sad, sad tale. How many have got away with it though?Two women have gone on trial accused of arranging to smuggle cash to fighters in Syria after one was allegedly found with 20,000 euros in her underwear.
You can't blame them for taking a direct approach to things rather than using one of the various "help a fighter abroad" charities.
gpo746 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28206160
Two women have gone on trial accused of arranging to smuggle cash to fighters in Syria after one was allegedly found with 20,000 euros in her underwear.
You can't blame them for taking a direct approach to things rather than using one of the various "help a fighter abroad" charities.
Smells fishy to me.Two women have gone on trial accused of arranging to smuggle cash to fighters in Syria after one was allegedly found with 20,000 euros in her underwear.
You can't blame them for taking a direct approach to things rather than using one of the various "help a fighter abroad" charities.
dudleybloke said:
gpo746 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28206160
Two women have gone on trial accused of arranging to smuggle cash to fighters in Syria after one was allegedly found with 20,000 euros in her underwear.
You can't blame them for taking a direct approach to things rather than using one of the various "help a fighter abroad" charities.
Smells fishy to me.Two women have gone on trial accused of arranging to smuggle cash to fighters in Syria after one was allegedly found with 20,000 euros in her underwear.
You can't blame them for taking a direct approach to things rather than using one of the various "help a fighter abroad" charities.
Meanwhile well done to these lads for admitting their guilt and facing yup to their crime. They could have chosen to drag things out but these two pleaded guilty as they were guilty:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28212679
"West Midlands Police said they were alerted to the case after Sarwar's parents contacted them in May 2013 to say he was missing.
They had found a letter in which their son, who was a computer science undergraduate at Birmingham City University, admitted he had gone "to do jihad" in Syria."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28212679
"West Midlands Police said they were alerted to the case after Sarwar's parents contacted them in May 2013 to say he was missing.
They had found a letter in which their son, who was a computer science undergraduate at Birmingham City University, admitted he had gone "to do jihad" in Syria."
In other news hundreds are going to Syria to actually help as aid isn't reaching the right places or people, as it nearly always fails to do.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/01/briti...
'The smelly and cramped conditions are "just a taster of what Syrians are going through". He's focused on the mission: aid agencies, he says, are not operating in the areas where help is most needed. The ambulances themselves will be needed because vehicles are in short supply in Syria. The group also say that, as Muslims, it is their duty and not a choice to help those suffering in Syria.
Across the border, Jameel and the others deliver their aid and leave the ambulances for use in Syria. The aid goes mainly to camps near the town of Ad Dana – an area largely controlled by the Islamic Front (a newly formed merger of other rebel groups). Isis was driven out of the area earlier in the year.'
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/01/briti...
'The smelly and cramped conditions are "just a taster of what Syrians are going through". He's focused on the mission: aid agencies, he says, are not operating in the areas where help is most needed. The ambulances themselves will be needed because vehicles are in short supply in Syria. The group also say that, as Muslims, it is their duty and not a choice to help those suffering in Syria.
Across the border, Jameel and the others deliver their aid and leave the ambulances for use in Syria. The aid goes mainly to camps near the town of Ad Dana – an area largely controlled by the Islamic Front (a newly formed merger of other rebel groups). Isis was driven out of the area earlier in the year.'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28212724
So now the UK has been found to supply key ingredients for chemical weapons to Syria. How surprising. Not.
So now the UK has been found to supply key ingredients for chemical weapons to Syria. How surprising. Not.
NISMOgtr said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28212724
So now the UK has been found to supply key ingredients for chemical weapons to Syria. How surprising. Not.
one would suspect along with a good proportion of the rest of the world in some form or anotherSo now the UK has been found to supply key ingredients for chemical weapons to Syria. How surprising. Not.
irocfan said:
NISMOgtr said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28212724
So now the UK has been found to supply key ingredients for chemical weapons to Syria. How surprising. Not.
one would suspect along with a good proportion of the rest of the world in some form or anotherSo now the UK has been found to supply key ingredients for chemical weapons to Syria. How surprising. Not.
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