Islam and the West

Author
Discussion

irocfan

40,152 posts

189 months

Wednesday 9th July 2014
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Countdown said:
voyds9 said:
So basically damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Not really. Lots of countries (in fact the vast majority of countries) manage quite easily to avoid getting involved in the ME. Perhaps it would we a good idea if we did the same?
I think that that ship has sailed - the crazies hate us and will continue no matter what we do frown

The_Burg

4,845 posts

213 months

Wednesday 9th July 2014
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It will never work. Back in the dark ages maybe.
The views of an educated man will never agree with the religeonist bacon dodgers.

Sadly education is on the decline, i suspect in the next generation the folk will be watering crops with Redbull to increase their growth and washing planes in it as it gives them wings.

Never underestimate the 'stupid' it's the new religeon.

Actually........Wasn't there a film about that.....

vxr8mate

1,654 posts

188 months

Thursday 10th July 2014
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Yes, damned if we do and damned if we don't.

If we 'intervene' we are meddlers, in it for ourselves or just exerting our influence. Then we become targets for terror organisations that cry 'oppression' and the West is bad etc.

If we don't we risk nuclear armament in the hands of mad religious Ayatollahs, genocide (for which we will be blamed for not intervening) and terrorist factories operating unabated.

I can see why we settle for the first option as it's the lessor......

Bill

52,472 posts

254 months

Thursday 10th July 2014
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It's not as straightforward as stepping back.

We have been meddling for years (Centuries, really...), trying to maintain influence so other powers are kept out. It kind of worked while the Empire existed but after a rushed, and hence bodged, end to that we drew a few lines with scant regard to promises made and peoples displaced.

Then we (by now with the US involved) continued to tweak, initially to thwart and irritate the USSR and keep the oil flowing. We supported the Shah in Iran, turning a blind eye to his excesses as they kept him in power. But then there was a revolt, and a mentalist installed, so we start to encourage Saddam.

Then we had to give Saddam a slap, but didn't do the job fully so he comes back harder and nastier so when we do get round to getting rid there's an even bigger st storm.

And the Russians are trying the same, propping up Assad, which is creating another bunch of loonies.

So now we're currying favour with the mentalists in Iran, because they're not as mental as ISIS.

We're stuck in a negative feedback loop. And Blair is the Middle East peace envoy rofl

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Thursday 10th July 2014
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Bill said:
We're stuck in a negative feedback loop. And Blair is the Middle East peace envoy rofl
Should report him to Trading Standards - wholly incorrect description. smile

Ali G

3,526 posts

281 months

Thursday 10th July 2014
quotequote all
The_Burg said:
It will never work. Back in the dark ages maybe.
The views of an educated man will never agree with the religeonist bacon dodgers.

Sadly education is on the decline, i suspect in the next generation the folk will be watering crops with Redbull to increase their growth and washing planes in it as it gives them wings.

Never underestimate the 'stupid' it's the new religeon.

Actually........Wasn't there a film about that.....
yes

A very fine documentary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk

Lost soul

8,712 posts

181 months

Thursday 10th July 2014
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Ali G said:
hehe

NISMOgtr

727 posts

190 months

Thursday 10th July 2014
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vxr8mate said:
Yes, damned if we do and damned if we don't.

If we 'intervene' we are meddlers, in it for ourselves or just exerting our influence. Then we become targets for terror organisations that cry 'oppression' and the West is bad etc.

If we don't we risk nuclear armament in the hands of mad religious Ayatollahs, genocide (for which we will be blamed for not intervening) and terrorist factories operating unabated.

I can see why we settle for the first option as it's the lessor......
Not intervening also means stop supporting any particular groups (like planning to train and arm ISIS! how mental is that). But we know that will never happen.

The West need to support what it right instead of just going after self interests. Once that step is taken then maybe something good can happen - but it will never happen because there will be nothing in it for them as the West are fuelled by greed.

Art0ir

9,401 posts

169 months

Thursday 10th July 2014
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I'm half way through Jeremy Scahill's 'Dirty Wars'. It's quite incredible what the US has been doing in the ME and beyond over the past decade.

Countdown

39,685 posts

195 months

Thursday 10th July 2014
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Art0ir said:
I'm half way through Jeremy Scahill's 'Dirty Wars'. It's quite incredible what the US has been doing in the ME and beyond over the past decade.
Decade? Try last 60 years.....

Art0ir

9,401 posts

169 months

Thursday 10th July 2014
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Countdown said:
Decade? Try last 60 years.....
I wouldn't discount that, certainly. The difference is there used to be some political oversight of covert assassination ops in foreign nations and now there is virtually none. It's an incredibly dangerous situation and the subsequent actions are definitely leading to the brainwashing and radicalisation of young Muslims.

Joffery666

305 posts

129 months

Monday 14th July 2014
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If anyone hasn't already, read a book called 'CONFESSIONS OF AN ECONOMIC HITMAN' written by John Perkings. If that doesn't open your mind up of what the good old United States of America get upto in their spare time, then nothing will.

gpo746

3,397 posts

129 months

Tuesday 15th July 2014
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Another sad tale of old whitey being nasty to the everyday Islamist:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-2830116...

A school is not protecting its pupils from the possible risks of extremism and should go into special measures, an Ofsted report has said.

Governors at Carlton Bolling College, Bradford, met the needs of Muslim students, but did not take sufficient account of other faiths, it said.


Meanwhile:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28317920

Trustees resign from Trojan Horse school "in interests of children"
The board of trustees at the centre of the alleged "Trojan Horse" Muslim takeover plot has resigned.

Park View Educational Trust chairman Tahir Alam said the decision had been made in the interests of children.

The trust has been in the spotlight since allegations that hardline Muslims were trying to extend their influence in the city's schools.

If only they would just let those nice loveable radicals get on with it and stop interfering .


Obviously its only a tiny ever so little percentage of the Islamist types who do this and they don't in any way reflect the views of the majority


Edited by gpo746 on Tuesday 15th July 18:50

KareemK

1,110 posts

118 months

Wednesday 16th July 2014
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Alpinestars said:
KareemK said:
gpo746: Thats 2 or 3 times you've mentioned "whitey" now. Do you have a point to make? Who's actually blamed "whitey" for anything on this thread?
I think he has an issue with the inference that some people have put forward that the West has created the issues in the ME/terrorism, and I think he seems to think the proponents of that view identify the West as being parochially and pejoratively a homogenous bunch of "Whiteys" (in his words of course).

The irony of his own generalisation of Islam is of course wasted on him.
Indeed. Or maybe he's is in a minority around his area and he feels "invaded" or "colonised" or some such. Whatever the reason it must suck to feel picked upon or marginalised.

Poor gpo746 "whitey". cry

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Wednesday 16th July 2014
quotequote all
KareemK said:
Alpinestars said:
KareemK said:
gpo746: Thats 2 or 3 times you've mentioned "whitey" now. Do you have a point to make? Who's actually blamed "whitey" for anything on this thread?
I think he has an issue with the inference that some people have put forward that the West has created the issues in the ME/terrorism, and I think he seems to think the proponents of that view identify the West as being parochially and pejoratively a homogenous bunch of "Whiteys" (in his words of course).

The irony of his own generalisation of Islam is of course wasted on him.
Indeed. Or maybe he's is in a minority around his area and he feels "invaded" or "colonised" or some such. Whatever the reason it must suck to feel picked upon or marginalised.

Poor gpo746 "whitey". cry
scratchchin

gpo746

3,397 posts

129 months

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Thursday 17th July 2014
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thumbup

irocfan

40,152 posts

189 months

Thursday 17th July 2014
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can see this kicking off...

Transmitter Man

4,253 posts

223 months

Thursday 17th July 2014
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voyds9 said:
So basically damned if we do, damned if we don't.
A big mistake the west done there was removing the police as well.

Phil

The_Burg

4,845 posts

213 months

Thursday 17th July 2014
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gpo746 said:
Perfectly reasonable, wearing a mask is wrong in public. Most communication is no verbal and the face is the most communicative area.
I'm very tolerant of religeonists, my personal views are it's all ridiculous, but everyone has the right to choose.
Covering the face though... very different, it's not required by religion. Why should anyone hide in public.
There are special clubs for folk that like wearing masks, i believe they aren't religious ones.

DO what you like in your own home, but not in the streets.