Islam and the West

[gruffalo]

Asterix said:

How does a Scouse Muslim cope?

Must be confusing not knowing whether to burn a flag or hold a minutes silence.

[p1esk]

zcacogp said:

Einion Yrth said:

I'll get the beer and pork scratchings.

OK, as long as you share. If there's going to be a public flogging then I'd like a good seat.

Oli.

Heh, you two would make a good double act. Can I join in?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[MarqueMe]

Purity14 said:

MarqueMe said:

Look, my great, great... grandfathers didn't fight, suffer and die in The Crusades so Islam could take over the bloody West!

I like this post, very good..!

Thanks! Sadly, it is true. Some right evil gits in my family history, including Philip de Braose who died c.1134 on Crusade. Probably not as bad as his grandson though, the "Ogre of Abergavenny", who organised a 'Game of Thrones' style meal-time massacre even Ronald McDonald couldn't match...

[Mermaid]

Forget the West.

Muslims killing each other in Pakistan. In Syria. In Iraq, - that's 3 big news items today. Although the killing goes on everyday.

[Halb]

mini1380cc said:

AA999 said:

I'd say the issue is Islam vs anything non-Islam.

The west just happens to fall in to the "anything non-Islam" grouping, along with parts of the far-east for example.



(Any place not in green, in my view from what I know about Islam, is that these parts are in "contradiction" to their beliefs).

According to the map "chinese" is a religion. I think they are atheist, aren't they?

It also says Japan is Christian. I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

[supersingle]

Halb said:

mini1380cc said:

AA999 said:

I'd say the issue is Islam vs anything non-Islam.

The west just happens to fall in to the "anything non-Islam" grouping, along with parts of the far-east for example.



(Any place not in green, in my view from what I know about Islam, is that these parts are in "contradiction" to their beliefs).

According to the map "chinese" is a religion. I think they are atheist, aren't they?

It also says Japan is Christian. I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

...and North Korea is Chinese.

[jamoor]

AA999 said:

I'd say the issue is Islam vs anything non-Islam.

The west just happens to fall in to the "anything non-Islam" grouping, along with parts of the far-east for example.



(Any place not in green, in my view from what I know about Islam, is that these parts are in "contradiction" to their beliefs).

Never knew Taiwan had lots of muslims, or that Chinese was a religion.

[mini1380cc]

supersingle said:

Halb said:

mini1380cc said:

AA999 said:

I'd say the issue is Islam vs anything non-Islam.

The west just happens to fall in to the "anything non-Islam" grouping, along with parts of the far-east for example.



(Any place not in green, in my view from what I know about Islam, is that these parts are in "contradiction" to their beliefs).

According to the map "chinese" is a religion. I think they are atheist, aren't they?

It also says Japan is Christian. I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

...and North Korea is Chinese.

Ah, its a map from the future.

[Jinx]

Purity14 said:

I think we should be more tolerant of the Muslims and stop being so racist and Islamaphobic all the time.

So we should show tolerance to Islam's treatment of women as property, executions of homosexuals and adulterers and given the death sentence to apostasy?

Why?

[Digga]

Jinx said:

Purity14 said:

I think we should be more tolerant of the Muslims and stop being so racist and Islamaphobic all the time.

So we should show tolerance to Islam's treatment of women as property, executions of homosexuals and adulterers and given the death sentence to apostasy?

Why?

This jibe neatly illustrates the point that the left are so keen to attach themselves to any minority cause that they end up trying themselves in knots of ideals. There are some core humanitarian and equality values that one would hope any human - irrespective of race or religion - shared that are completely at odds with many religious zealots (not only Muslim) and are blindly ignored by the hand-wringing [i]bien pensants[i/].

[Halb]

rodericb said:

This wikipedia page gives a good overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_pop...

It is encouraging that third on that list is agnostic/atheist.


This is good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_pop...

[Moonhawk]

Purity14 said:

I think we should be more tolerant of the Muslims and stop being so racist and Islamaphobic all the time.

And vice versa surely? Racism and intolerance is a two way street.

[raftom]

mini1380cc said:

supersingle said:

Halb said:

mini1380cc said:

AA999 said:

I'd say the issue is Islam vs anything non-Islam.

The west just happens to fall in to the "anything non-Islam" grouping, along with parts of the far-east for example.



(Any place not in green, in my view from what I know about Islam, is that these parts are in "contradiction" to their beliefs).

According to the map "chinese" is a religion. I think they are atheist, aren't they?

It also says Japan is Christian. I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

...and North Korea is Chinese.

Ah, its a map from the future.

And Armenia is Christian.

PH Religious geography matters.

[Pappa Lurve]

As often seems to be the case, I am confused. People seem to feel Muslims are all, or majorly, of one mind. I think there are roughly 1 billion Muslims world wide, possibly more (could check, can;t be bothered!) so if anyone seriously thinks they, unlike any other community or group pretty much ever, are all focused one one goal is simply nuts.

The issue has sod all to do with Islam and a lot more to do with fundamentalism and extremism which can be found as a tiny minority pretty much everywhere one wishes to look.

Let me further make my point by pointing out that the West as it is referred to here is also not a single group with one set of values. If it is, kindly explain what those are.

Been hearing for at least 15 years how the evil Muslim types are taking over the world and soon we will all be under sharia law. It was bull then, it is bull now but hey, lets keep quoting a media who are motivated by circulation (thats their job!) and as long as the public dont want to know in depth situational analysis behind the news but want quick daily mail style "news" or assume they understand everything as they watch BBC news or newsnight, (who to be fair, do a decent job with very limited time) then nothing will move on until we find the next set of people to fear.

[Mermaid]

Pappa Lurve said:

...Been hearing for at least 15 years how the evil Muslim types are taking over the world and soon we will all be under sharia law. It was bull then, it is bull now but hey, lets keep quoting a media who are motivated by circulation (thats their job!) and as long as the public dont want to know in depth situational analysis behind the news but want quick daily mail style "news" or assume they understand everything as they watch BBC news or newsnight, (who to be fair, do a decent job with very limited time) then nothing will move on until we find the next set of people to fear.

You would think the Muslim governing council would mount a major PR campaign to deal with the negative media coverage they are suffering.

[ClaphamGT3]

As a practicing member of the Church of England, I would welcome the Govt actively promoting a message - and a culture - that the only body, society or organisation that can legitimately claim any form of supremecy or authority over others is parliament, as it is formed and protected under the Bill of Rights.

If Chazzer wanted to find a focus for his desire to have a voice, he could do worse than choose this. Look how the current and immediately previous Dutch monarchs continually act as a unifying, moderating force against extremist fringes in Dutch society by actively promoting the "everything and everyone is subservient to the constitution" message

[Bill]

Mermaid said:

You would think the Muslim governing council would mount a major PR campaign to deal with the negative media coverage they are suffering.

Which governing council would that be? And even if the various Muslim factions could get together and agree on a campaign what newspaper would bother printing a story pointing out that most Muslims are just trying to get by in life like the rest of us?

[DonkeyApple]

Mermaid said:

Pappa Lurve said:

...Been hearing for at least 15 years how the evil Muslim types are taking over the world and soon we will all be under sharia law. It was bull then, it is bull now but hey, lets keep quoting a media who are motivated by circulation (thats their job!) and as long as the public dont want to know in depth situational analysis behind the news but want quick daily mail style "news" or assume they understand everything as they watch BBC news or newsnight, (who to be fair, do a decent job with very limited time) then nothing will move on until we find the next set of people to fear.

You would think the Muslim governing council would mount a major PR campaign to deal with the negative media coverage they are suffering.

Do turkeys vote for Christmas?

Lots of money for everyone in friction, not so much in harmony.

[Pickled Piper]

Pappa Lurve said:

Been hearing for at least 15 years how the evil Muslim types are taking over the world and soon we will all be under sharia law. It was bull then, it is bull now but hey, lets keep quoting a media who are motivated by circulation (thats their job!) and as long as the public dont want to know in depth situational analysis behind the news but want quick daily mail style "news" or assume they understand everything as they watch BBC news or newsnight, (who to be fair, do a decent job with very limited time) then nothing will move on until we find the next set of people to fear.

So the creeping Islamification of State Education was just a tabloid frenzy? All happened without largescale support from a whole community?

[Pappa Lurve]

Bill said:

Mermaid said:

You would think the Muslim governing council would mount a major PR campaign to deal with the negative media coverage they are suffering.

Which governing council would that be? And even if the various Muslim factions could get together and agree on a campaign what newspaper would bother printing a story pointing out that most Muslims are just trying to get by in life like the rest of us?

Exactly right. And you also assume that any Muslim Council is representative. Well, if hat is the case, how come we here have representatives (MPs) with less than 50% of of the popular vote? Does parliament speak for us all? Certainly does not speak for me at times. That being the case, am I still English?! If I am, then why do I get to have a differing view from others but all Muslims get lumped together?

And to give an example of Bill comment -can you really see the media or indeed public having any interest in a story which says "Muslim does not blow something up!" "Muslim Imam calls for his entire congregation to meet up at Abduls house at 3pm for lunch when nothing will be plotted!" or even the terrible "most Muslims are exactly the same as most other people!"

Its very easy to hop and a bandwagon but as those of us who have taken the time to actually understand the ME to some extent, understand the theology again, to some extent or simply understand that the view of billions of people as having a single mind is utterly, obviously moronic will tell you - Muslims are EXACTLY the same as every other group of people on earth, good, bad, nice, nasty, etc. But hey, its so much easier to not apply a tiny bit of logic.

And for what it is worth, I am not Muslim. I am not pretending to speak for anyone - simply pointing out that not can anyone else. We are a society of individuals which is fine if you are white anglo saxon but if you are anything else, you are clearly defined but whatever that maybe, which is patently ludicrous. However, to suggest Islam is somehow some evil unified bunch is unsupportable.

I also fully appreciate the perception of Muslims needs work. As public opinion is often led by media, a media WE buy, WE finance, WE support and who set their agenda based primarily on circulation /viewers etc we as a society need to examine why we have no interest in understanding a situation to any depth yet feel qualified to decide the facts.

Again, I am speaking not as a representative of England being as I am English, or as a representative of my own communities, but as someone who is getting increasingly concerned by the pointless, untrue and casual vilification of Muslims in general.

SOrry for the long post - something I feel very strongly about.