Israeli

[franki68]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

obviously he cannot know how you specifically feel,but I think it was more of a general observation which is valid.Its not really debatable the level of attention the israel -palestine conflict gets far exceeds any other 'human tradgedies'
I would also think that recent events (manchester ,france) show huge evidence of a link between anti-semitism and the anti-israel lobby ,that is not to imply that all anti-israelis are anti-semites,far from it,but there is a definite association.
the anti-israel brigade attracts anti-semites and the pro-israel brigade attracts islamaphobes ,that is a fact as someone likes to say.

[Rocksteadyeddie]

Mrr T said:

Mr Snap said:

Israel refuses to have peace talks with Hamas. The Egyptian peace initiative didn't consult Hamas, it only consulted El Fatah.

I believe Israel will not talk to Hamas because Hamas will not accept "Israel right to exist". Whereas I believe El Fatah have.

Mr Snap said:

It was only when John Major entered secret talks with the IRA was there any move towards peace in NI. Hamas has stated it's willingness to talk but Israel refuses to talk with terrorists. If Israel refuses to talk with the main protagonists, they too will never obtain peace - and thus war becomes self-perpetuating. It's as much Israel's fault as Hamas's.

Again I believe you are wrong. I do not believe John Major would have met terrorists with a blank sheet of paper.

There have long been rumours before the "Downing Street Declaration" in 1994 that back ground talks had taken place between officials and terrorists.

This seems logical since; why make the declaration if it had not been tastily agreed by all sides as forming a basis for peace.

Tin foil helmet off.

Back to Israel.

If Hamas declared an unconditional cease fire, agreed to Israel's right to exist, and renounced violence.

Then we might truly be on the road to peace.

Further the moral authority of the rest of the world on Israel would leave it no option but to start negoations.

Sadly pigs do not fly.

The rest of the World already has the moral authority over Israel and it makes not a blind bit of difference to the way they choose to behave. See broken UN resolutions for more detail.

[Lost soul]

Interesting on Channel 4 news last night

John snow briefly mentioned rumours of missiles being fond in a UN school in gaza , but he quickly poo pooed the rumour as being unconfirmed , where by his co presenter had to stop him to confirm that it was not a rumour and had been confirmed by the UN

This is the level of biased reporting when it comes to this conflict

[Countdown]

Mrr T said:

Back to Israel.

If Hamas declared an unconditional cease fire, agreed to Israel's right to exist, and renounced violence.

Then we might truly be on the road to peace.
.

I think what you mean is "If Hamas agreed to everything Israel wants the we "might" be on the road to peace".

The West Bank has been peaceful, Fatah HAS agreed to Israel's right to exist. And Israel has continued to build Settlements.

Israel doesn't want peace. It wants a "Greater Israel".

[Mrr T]

Rocksteadyeddie said:

The rest of the World already has the moral authority over Israel and it makes not a blind bit of difference to the way they choose to behave. See broken UN resolutions for more detail.

The moral authority of the UN is best summed up by the members of UN council on human rights. Which contains such stalwarts of humans rights as China, Cuba, Algeria, Saudi Araiba, and the Congo.

No the moral authority is about trade, arms, etc. All this depends on the view of many us here which is that while, we dislike what Israel is doing, we see it has few other options to protect it citizens.

Hamas agreeing renounce violence and agreeing to negotiate on terms which accepted the right of Israel to exist would be a game changer.

So the question is what are the chances of Hamas doing this?

[s1962a]

Funkycoldribena said:

s1962a said:

Apparently 43% of Gaza is unsafe for residents. Where in gaza can they go?

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-gaza...

The other 57%?

Great, where is the map showing this 57% that is safe? Hopefully no goalposts changing going on, like the family that was asked to move out of their area to a safer area, and then got bombed there.

[s1962a]

Mrr T said:

Rocksteadyeddie said:

The rest of the World already has the moral authority over Israel and it makes not a blind bit of difference to the way they choose to behave. See broken UN resolutions for more detail.

The moral authority of the UN is best summed up by the members of UN council on human rights. Which contains such stalwarts of humans rights as China, Cuba, Algeria, Saudi Araiba, and the Congo.

No the moral authority is about trade, arms, etc. All this depends on the view of many us here which is that while, we dislike what Israel is doing, we see it has few other options to protect it citizens.

Hamas agreeing renounce violence and agreeing to negotiate on terms which accepted the right of Israel to exist would be a game changer.

So the question is what are the chances of Hamas doing this?

Doesn't give Israel the right to bomb so many children.

[s1962a]

Countdown said:

Mrr T said:

Back to Israel.

If Hamas declared an unconditional cease fire, agreed to Israel's right to exist, and renounced violence.

Then we might truly be on the road to peace.
.

I think what you mean is "If Hamas agreed to everything Israel wants the we "might" be on the road to peace".

The West Bank has been peaceful, Fatah HAS agreed to Israel's right to exist. And Israel has continued to build Settlements.

Israel doesn't want peace. It wants a "Greater Israel".

Easing of the blockade on Gazan's seems sensible on the path to a ceasefire. I don't see how letting the Gazan's trade and create livelihoods for themselves is a negative thing? Someone mentioned earlier about big rockets getting in, but some of the big tunnels they had would have facilitated that already so an irrelevant point. At least it's easier to implement some sort of port/border customs to stop illegal weapons getting in.

[Mrr T]

Countdown said:

I think what you mean is "If Hamas agreed to everything Israel wants the we "might" be on the road to peace".

So you say is all Israel wants is for Hamas to cease fire , renounce violence, and negotiate.

Countdown said:

The West Bank has been peaceful, Fatah HAS agreed to Israel's right to exist. And Israel has continued to build Settlements.

Israel doesn't want peace. It wants a "Greater Israel".

I will not defend the settlements nor the Governments inaction in dealing with them. I do understand the Governments problem in that the settlers have votes and supporters so taking decisive action is controversial.

The solution is for all the Arabs in Israel to take up full citizenship and vote. They would be a significant political force which would moderate the influence of the more extreme elements.such as those proclaiming "Greater Israel".

[Funkycoldribena]

Surely the best solution to solve this is Hamas coming out into the open?

[Mrr T]

s1962a said:

Doesn't give Israel the right to bomb so many children.

So do you suggests it just allows Hamas to continue to lob missile?

[JuniorD]

Funkycoldribena said:

s1962a said:

Apparently 43% of Gaza is unsafe for residents. Where in gaza can they go?

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-gaza...

The other 57%?

How flippant and ignorant but not unexpected.

[Lost soul]

JuniorD said:

Funkycoldribena said:

s1962a said:

Apparently 43% of Gaza is unsafe for residents. Where in gaza can they go?

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-gaza...

The other 57%?

How flippant and ignorant but not unexpected.

Not at all flippant

[s1962a]

Mrr T said:

s1962a said:

Doesn't give Israel the right to bomb so many children.

So do you suggests it just allows Hamas to continue to lob missile?

I would suggest Israel doesn't bomb so many children in retaliation. Hamas need to stop firing rockets for sure.

Look at these different scenarios

1. Hamas fighter on top of a rooftop of a house firing missiles at Israel - it's understandable to attack and occupants of the house must know the danger of allowing this to happen

2. Hamas official at home with his family including children - what justification is there to bomb this house and kill those children? The hamas official receives no warning else he'd just flee.

3. Buildings targeted where people are inside - what justification is there to bomb these?

[s1962a]

Lost soul said:

JuniorD said:

Funkycoldribena said:

s1962a said:

Apparently 43% of Gaza is unsafe for residents. Where in gaza can they go?

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-gaza...

The other 57%?

How flippant and ignorant but not unexpected.

Not at all flippant

I will ask again then, where is the map showing the safe 57%? Is it a static 57% or have there been examples of people being asked to flee their homes and then being bombed in their new location? Yes, that was a loaded question.

[Art0ir]

s1962a said:

This situation won't be fixed overnight - it's gone on far too long for it to be this quick, but look at the bigger picture. Giving Gazans access to the outside world will allow them to resume trade and build their lives. They can have access to medicine, food, education and rebuilding their city. Over time hamas would possibly be marginalised as they won't be able to control resources anymore, and thus won't have much power over the people of gaza, no matter how much they terrorise them. That sounds like the building blocks to a 2 state solution.

Israel will not accept a two state solution. Just like a minority of hate filled posters on here, they do not accept the existence of a Palestinian state nor do they care for her citizens.

[Funkycoldribena]

JuniorD said:

How flippant and ignorant but not unexpected.

What,are my maths wrong?

[egor110]

s1962a said:

I would suggest Israel doesn't bomb so many children in retaliation. Hamas need to stop firing rockets for sure.

Look at these different scenarios

1. Hamas fighter on top of a rooftop of a house firing missiles at Israel - it's understandable to attack and occupants of the house must know the danger of allowing this to happen

2. Hamas official at home with his family including children - what justification is there to bomb this house and kill those children? The hamas official receives no warning else he'd just flee.

3. Buildings targeted where people are inside - what justification is there to bomb these?

You think Hamas just knock on doors and say high we were just wondering if you'd let us set up a rocket launch base on your roof?

Of course not there a armed gang of religious thugs, if they come to your house to use it your not going to stop them or you'll be shot.

[S 8 GRN]

s1962a said:

Lost soul said:

JuniorD said:

Funkycoldribena said:

s1962a said:

Apparently 43% of Gaza is unsafe for residents. Where in gaza can they go?

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-gaza...

The other 57%?

How flippant and ignorant but not unexpected.

Not at all flippant

I will ask again then, where is the map showing the safe 57%? Is it a static 57% or have there been examples of people being asked to flee their homes and then being bombed in their new location? Yes, that was a loaded question.

That would be for Hamas to provide for their people surely? The people that support them? Put them in power? It would be perfectly normal to expect your leaders that are taking your people in to battle to protect everyone else and get them behind the battle lines? But as we know it serves their purpose to maximise civilian casualties and their can be no doubt that is their tactic.

What is wrong is how the Israeli gov have gone about this in the first place. Such loss of life, specifically children, is totally unacceptable. How ever frequent the rockets it cannot justify those deaths.

[Countdown]

Mrr T said:

Countdown said:

I think what you mean is "If Hamas agreed to everything Israel wants the we "might" be on the road to peace".

So you say is all Israel wants is for Hamas to cease fire , renounce violence, and negotiate.

Do you think Israel will negotiate if Hamas does that? All the evidence suggests it won't.

Mrr T said:

I will not defend the settlements nor the Governments inaction in dealing with them. I do understand the Governments problem in that the settlers have votes and supporters so taking decisive action is controversial.

The solution is for all the Arabs in Israel to take up full citizenship and vote. They would be a significant political force which would moderate the influence of the more extreme elements.such as those proclaiming "Greater Israel".

I wish you were right but I don't think it will. Your average Israeli appears to becoming increasingly more in support of the Settlers and the Israeli arabs won't be able to make much difference. This goes back to the thing about Israel being a "Jewish State" and a "democratic State". It can't be both.