Discussion
Guam said:
Article in the Guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/gaza-...
Over 2100 rockets fired from Gaza against Israel since this Kicked off.
Seems to me neither side give a monkeys about the Civilians in Gaza and they should BOTH be held to account, oh and these aren't fireworks btw.
This is wrong - those rockets should not be fired into civilian populations, but they are. I agree both should be held accountable.http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/gaza-...
Over 2100 rockets fired from Gaza against Israel since this Kicked off.
Seems to me neither side give a monkeys about the Civilians in Gaza and they should BOTH be held to account, oh and these aren't fireworks btw.
The level of bombing we've seen where innocent people are dying in Gaza - is that proportionate? I would suggest not. Even today a UN shelter got bombed killing 15 people, including a baby. If there was one - just one israeli present in that UN shelter, I doubt it would have got bombed. Why the difference?
Hamas have said that an end to the blockade of Gaza should be part of any ceasefire agreement.
In case someone has not read any of my previous comments, I am not a fan of hamas and think they should stop the rockets. I am more concerned with the amount of innocent children getting killed in gaza.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/25/world/middleeast...
Even the Israeli military aren't able to comment on why they shelled that school
What possible justification could they have had for this? They suspected militants there so they bombed a whole load of people sheltering there??
Even the Israeli military aren't able to comment on why they shelled that school
What possible justification could they have had for this? They suspected militants there so they bombed a whole load of people sheltering there??
I like the cut of Alexi Sayle's jib; Israel the Jimmy Savile of nations and other pertinent metaphors.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/...
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/...
s1962a said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/25/world/middleeast...
Even the Israeli military aren't able to comment on why they shelled that school
What possible justification could they have had for this? They suspected militants there so they bombed a whole load of people sheltering there??
err...Even the Israeli military aren't able to comment on why they shelled that school
What possible justification could they have had for this? They suspected militants there so they bombed a whole load of people sheltering there??
well, the IDF just stated on Sky news that they had given 12 hour window to the UN and red cross to clear that shelter as rockets were being fired from within it, these warnings were in telephone calls to both UN and red cross staff.
(rumour is that Hamas were blocking their exit)
Look, yes it's not pleasant, but WTF do you expect the IDF to do when they see rockets being launched from somewhere surrounded by civilians? just ignore them and let them carry on firing rockets?
they gave a 12 hour window for them to evacuate, (with rockets still being fired) and some before they shelled the launch site.
now, I am sure there are some on here that will bleat on about innocent lives, but put them in the same position and see what they would do.
The UN is really not helping here, they compounds and schools are being used for military purposes, thus any use of them as a safe haven is gone.
last week they found rockets at two of their sites, what did they do with them? yes, you guessed it, they gave them back to hamas!
same as red cross ambulances being used to ferry Hamas militants about.
s1962a said:
Rabbi suggests that all Gazans could be wiped out - do you agree with this too? Surely he speaks for everyone and his opinion is fact, not just an opinion.. right?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28468526At least 15 people have been killed and more than 200 injured when a UN-run school used as a shelter in Gaza was shelled, the Gaza health ministry says.
Sounds like they have started...
Scuffers said:
s1962a said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/25/world/middleeast...
Even the Israeli military aren't able to comment on why they shelled that school
What possible justification could they have had for this? They suspected militants there so they bombed a whole load of people sheltering there??
err...Even the Israeli military aren't able to comment on why they shelled that school
What possible justification could they have had for this? They suspected militants there so they bombed a whole load of people sheltering there??
well, the IDF just stated on Sky news that they had given 12 hour window to the UN and red cross to clear that shelter as rockets were being fired from within it, these warnings were in telephone calls to both UN and red cross staff.
(rumour is that Hamas were blocking their exit)
Look, yes it's not pleasant, but WTF do you expect the IDF to do when they see rockets being launched from somewhere surrounded by civilians? just ignore them and let them carry on firing rockets?
they gave a 12 hour window for them to evacuate, (with rockets still being fired) and some before they shelled the launch site.
now, I am sure there are some on here that will bleat on about innocent lives, but put them in the same position and see what they would do.
The UN is really not helping here, they compounds and schools are being used for military purposes, thus any use of them as a safe haven is gone.
last week they found rockets at two of their sites, what did they do with them? yes, you guessed it, they gave them back to hamas!
same as red cross ambulances being used to ferry Hamas militants about.
Let me get this right. They were given 12 hour notice to leave, and their exit was being blocked by hamas - so what did Israel do? Bomb the civilians - that'll teach em right? Collective punishment. Bloody hell
Mojocvh said:
s1962a said:
Rabbi suggests that all Gazans could be wiped out - do you agree with this too? Surely he speaks for everyone and his opinion is fact, not just an opinion.. right?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28468526At least 15 people have been killed and more than 200 injured when a UN-run school used as a shelter in Gaza was shelled, the Gaza health ministry says.
Sounds like they have started...
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Rab...
Scuffers said:
Look, yes it's not pleasant, but WTF do you expect the IDF to do when they see rockets being launched from somewhere surrounded by civilians? just ignore them and let them carry on firing rockets?
No, but firing at civilians or targetting sites where there is an unacceptable risk of collateral damage to civilians is against international law and basic decency.So far, Israeli death toll due to Hamas rocket attack = 1; Palestinian death toll due to Israeli action runs into the several hundred; Israel has actually killed more children than Hamas fighters.
It is the proportionality of the Israeli response, and its inability to achieve its aim without unacceptable civilian casualties, which is doing such enormous damage to Israel.
Israel badly needs some leaders with the vision to negotiate a way out of this mess and achieve some sort of acceptable accomodation with moderate Palestinians. As things stand, the Israeli policy of blockading Gaza and lobbing shells into it, is only creating more "terrorists" of the future.
Israeli government spokesmen are quick to point out that they drop leaflets to tell residents to evacuate or fire warning shots before going for the kill but where exactly do they expect Gazans to evacuate to? One border is closed by the Israelis and the other by Egypt. The only thing that's left is the sea - are residents just expected to sail away and catch the wind?
Hamas's use of human shields is undeniable and they care little for their own people however I don't believe Israel when they say they do their best to minimise civilian casualties - if that were true they would not bomb civilian areas at all.
Hamas's use of human shields is undeniable and they care little for their own people however I don't believe Israel when they say they do their best to minimise civilian casualties - if that were true they would not bomb civilian areas at all.
Scuffers said:
not at all, but to try and deny that there is any relationship between the nut-jobs is just naive
no, this does not make you a racist or a holocaust denier.
your point about hiding rockets in a UN school is somewhat late though:
http://news.sky.com/story/1306475/rockets-stored-i...
so, that's two loads of rockets found by the UN (and subsequently 'lost') in UN schools
Good stuff. What precisely do you suggest the UN do when they find rockets? no, this does not make you a racist or a holocaust denier.
your point about hiding rockets in a UN school is somewhat late though:
http://news.sky.com/story/1306475/rockets-stored-i...
so, that's two loads of rockets found by the UN (and subsequently 'lost') in UN schools
Better still, let's imagine you are Mr UN (improbable, I know). Finding yourself in a crowded bomb shelter in a country controlled by terrorists and being invaded by another country (somewhat famous for being trigger happy), you find a stash of rockets.
Assuming you don't wish to be sent home in a jiffy bag along with a couple of hundred other innocent people, what precisely would you do?
Don't be shy, we do so welcome your astute and absolutely non-racist, contributions...
Welshbeef said:
Really interesting - whatever the aims of Israel and their justification the UN is already labelling Israel with war crimes (when will these court cases commence) the west are only seeing the bad stuff
You just have to look at the many examples where innocent people / children are needlessly dying to see that something is very very wrong here.s1962a said:
You just have to look at the many examples where innocent people / children are needlessly dying to see that something is very very wrong here.
To be honest I think we should see the UN take over and actually control the boarders with Israel and Egypt - and then allow those refugees to return to their Homeland of Israel and if they had land or properties that these are returned (surely these cannot have been refugees since the 1948. War.... If so that's utterly criminal by Israel)Mr Snap said:
Scuffers said:
not at all, but to try and deny that there is any relationship between the nut-jobs is just naive
no, this does not make you a racist or a holocaust denier.
your point about hiding rockets in a UN school is somewhat late though:
http://news.sky.com/story/1306475/rockets-stored-i...
so, that's two loads of rockets found by the UN (and subsequently 'lost') in UN schools
Good stuff. What precisely do you suggest the UN do when they find rockets? no, this does not make you a racist or a holocaust denier.
your point about hiding rockets in a UN school is somewhat late though:
http://news.sky.com/story/1306475/rockets-stored-i...
so, that's two loads of rockets found by the UN (and subsequently 'lost') in UN schools
Better still, let's imagine you are Mr UN (improbable, I know). Finding yourself in a crowded bomb shelter in a country controlled by terrorists and being invaded by another country (somewhat famous for being trigger happy), you find a stash of rockets.
Assuming you don't wish to be sent home in a jiffy bag along with a couple of hundred other innocent people, what precisely would you do?
Don't be shy, we do so welcome your astute and absolutely non-racist, contributions...
Mojocvh said:
And let's not forget genocidal massacre by proxy.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_mas...
JuniorD said:
I like the cut of Alexi Sayle's jib; Israel the Jimmy Savile of nations and other pertinent metaphors.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/...
Until of course he sounds like a complete prick in this https://audioboo.fm/boos/2348708-is-the-israel-gaz...http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/...
RedTrident said:
Israel don't care about war crimes. The US will back them regardless and we're just their b
h.
The shame isn't just Israel's.
h.The shame isn't just Israel's.
The US could have this ended with a snap of Obama's finger. And if I recall correctly, Bin Laden had a big problem with the US stance on the matter and look what happened then.
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