Israeli

[Mr Snap]

S 8 GRN said:

Mr Snap said:

Scuffers said:

not at all, but to try and deny that there is any relationship between the nut-jobs is just naive

no, this does not make you a racist or a holocaust denier.

your point about hiding rockets in a UN school is somewhat late though:

http://news.sky.com/story/1306475/rockets-stored-i...

so, that's two loads of rockets found by the UN (and subsequently 'lost') in UN schools

Good stuff. What precisely do you suggest the UN do when they find rockets?

Better still, let's imagine you are Mr UN (improbable, I know). Finding yourself in a crowded bomb shelter in a country controlled by terrorists and being invaded by another country (somewhat famous for being trigger happy), you find a stash of rockets.

Assuming you don't wish to be sent home in a jiffy bag along with a couple of hundred other innocent people, what precisely would you do?

Don't be shy, we do so welcome your astute and absolutely non-racist, contributions...

Surely that's for the UN to figure out else there is no point in their existence.

I agree with you, but it's our friend Scuffers is criticising the UN for its actions, not me. I'd merely like to know what he'd do in the same circumstances - assuming he's not a suicidal maniac.

(BTW. As I understand it, the UN showed the rockets to Hamas and asked them to dispose of them).

[vonuber]

Footage of the kids in that hospital on channel 4, absolutely heart breaking.
Whatever perceived moral high ground Israel may have had has utterly gone.

[Mr Snap]

s1962a said:

durbster said:

Mrr T said:

s1962a said:

Thank you for being impartial in your response. Just to make my position clear, I am no advocate of Hamas, and I have no ill thoughts against Israel, apart from it's behaviour during this conflict, which in my mind is disproportionate - especially with the sheer number of children being killed.

The question I have asked every one who says that is "what should Israel do? just sit there and let them lob missiles".

Treat the rocket launches as a crime. Perhaps use some kind of lawful arrest, trial and punishment system? You know, the things that modern, civilised democracies are supposed to do.

The current Israeli response is like locking your neighbours in their house and burning it down because their kid launched a firework that landed in your garden.

My suggestion to stop the rocket fire, and this is based on what I have read and some very informative posts on PH

- Ease restrictions on Gaza and open borders. Implement customs control to only restrict weapons and arms
- Give the palestinians in Gaza the opportunity to trade, educate themselves, and live their lives
- Hamas would then have less and less support

There are mainstream Israeli politicians who would agree with you. Unfortunately, they aren't in Government.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/07/...

[Welshbeef]

Route causes

1. All boarders closed since 2007
2. 70% of the population living off UN food rations
3. 1.2 million refugees expelled from their birthright homes land and have been so since 1948, aparently the justification is in another country Jews were forced out so its apparently ok for the innocent in this act Palestinians to lose out (why)
4. Israel continually building illegal settlements
5. Israel ignoring the UN resolution for 30-40 years and counting (didn't we go to war instantly when Iraq ignored a UN resolution --- why is Israel not treated the same?
6. The sever response to mortar attacks from Terrorists in Gaza killing so many innocent children women and men instead of targeting those who committed the crimes - this would make any father family member hate Israel for their lifetime. Yet Israel don't understand this as a problem they are creating.


That's quite a list really for route causes - likely many many more. How do you cure these issues? If Israels negotiation tactic on all of these is nah god given right on everything then its a farce and will never end. Therefore they need a higher power (think UK USA EU etc) to step in and force through an agreement which is just for both sides and then police that ongoing

[anonymous-user]

Would the Israeli establishment like to be treated as a legitimate government or a terrorist organisation? Reason being some on here seem to be trying to justify their actions by comparing them to the actions of Hamas and ISIS, somehow the fact that these terrorist organisations are killing people too makes it all OK.
ISIS and Hamas terrorists deserve all that's coming their way.................

[Scuffers]

Mr Snap said:

S 8 GRN said:

Mr Snap said:

Scuffers said:

not at all, but to try and deny that there is any relationship between the nut-jobs is just naive

no, this does not make you a racist or a holocaust denier.

your point about hiding rockets in a UN school is somewhat late though:

http://news.sky.com/story/1306475/rockets-stored-i...

so, that's two loads of rockets found by the UN (and subsequently 'lost') in UN schools

Good stuff. What precisely do you suggest the UN do when they find rockets?

Better still, let's imagine you are Mr UN (improbable, I know). Finding yourself in a crowded bomb shelter in a country controlled by terrorists and being invaded by another country (somewhat famous for being trigger happy), you find a stash of rockets.

Assuming you don't wish to be sent home in a jiffy bag along with a couple of hundred other innocent people, what precisely would you do?

Don't be shy, we do so welcome your astute and absolutely non-racist, contributions...

Surely that's for the UN to figure out else there is no point in their existence.

I agree with you, but it's our friend Scuffers is criticising the UN for its actions, not me. I'd merely like to know what he'd do in the same circumstances - assuming he's not a suicidal maniac.

(BTW. As I understand it, the UN showed the rockets to Hamas and asked them to dispose of them).

And dispose of them they did, by firing them at Israel!

Its not the job of the UN to provide a safe storage facility and launch site complete with human shield for terrorists hide out at is it?

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef - any international forces on Israeli/Palestinian soil would most definitely reawaken Jewish extremist terrorists. Any weakness in border control may well invite the Islamic extremists in too as they seem an opportunist lot. Essentially the extremists on both sides would see an outside attempt to square things up as a opportunity to cause mayhem so they can get it all for themselves.

[Mr Snap]

Scuffers said:

And dispose of them they did, by firing them at Israel!

Its not the job of the UN to provide a safe storage facility and launch site complete with human shield for terrorists hide out at is it?

No. That wasn't the question. You seem to think you wouldn't have done what they did. Which begs the question: What would you have done in the same circumstances?

[Welshbeef]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Surely this option is better than what we have seen for the last 30-40 years of suffering and death on both sides.

[Countdown]

S 8 GRN said:

JuniorD said:

I like the cut of Alexi Sayle's jib; Israel the Jimmy Savile of nations and other pertinent metaphors.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/...

Until of course he sounds like a complete prick in this https://audioboo.fm/boos/2348708-is-the-israel-gaz...

I heard that clip and I read the article in yesterday's Telegraph. To be honest I think he came across quite well and probably better than her.

Why do Zionists label Jews who don't agree with them "self loathing Jews"?

[0a]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

A few weeks back I had some sympathy with the Israeli position - every nation has the right to defend itself. However recent events have gone far to far - the way they are behaving is completely unacceptable, as evidenced by the civilian and child casualty rates.

To be considered a government worth the word they need to demonstrate they are better than the other side, not bow to and below their level of behavior. They should hold themselves and be held to higher standards, and not seek to justify any action, however abhorrent to a reasonable observer, with the broad brush of self defence.

They can only be creating future resentment and terrorists for themselves now. It is a shame that the US (and the UK) cannot be more critical.

[Scuffers]

Mr Snap said:

Scuffers said:

And dispose of them they did, by firing them at Israel!

Its not the job of the UN to provide a safe storage facility and launch site complete with human shield for terrorists hide out at is it?

No. That wasn't the question. You seem to think you wouldn't have done what they did. Which begs the question: What would you have done in the same circumstances?

At the very least, render them useless...

Could do worse then give them to the idf for disposal

To hand them back to the people using them is just laughable.

Ask yourself a question, if the un and other ngos were not there, would this have happened?

Which then begs the question, What are they doing there?

[Funkycoldribena]

Welshbeef said:

Route causes

Is there a problem with the roads?

[Countdown]

0a said:

A few weeks back I had some sympathy with the Israeli position - every nation has the right to defend itself. However recent events have gone far to far - the way they are behaving is completely unacceptable, as evidenced by the civilian and child casualty rates.

To be considered a government worth the word they need to demonstrate they are better than the other side, not bow to and below their level of behavior. They should hold themselves and be held to higher standards, and not seek to justify any action, however abhorrent to a reasonable observer, with the broad brush of self defence.

They can only be creating future resentment and terrorists for themselves now. It is a shame that the US (and the UK) cannot be more critical.

Their behaviour hasn't really changed. It's a drip-drip-drip of Settlement building, restrictions on Palestinians, arrests, assassinations, and so on until things like this explode. the the Israeli Govt stands back in mock-horror and bleats on about "inalienable right to defend itself". That's why this conflict has been going on for so long.

The hardcore fanatics/extremists on both sides point to the actions of the "others" in order to polarise support.

[Countdown]

Funkycoldribena said:

Is there a problem with the roads?

Yes

http://www.btselem.org/download/200408_forbidden_r...

http://visualizingpalestine.org/infographic/segreg...

http://annainthemiddleeast.com/photos/roadblocks/

Of course, we must acknowledge Israel's inalienable right to defend itself.

[Funkycoldribena]

Countdown said:

Yes

http://www.btselem.org/download/200408_forbidden_r...

http://visualizingpalestine.org/infographic/segreg...

http://annainthemiddleeast.com/photos/roadblocks/

Of course, we must acknowledge Israel's inalienable right to defend itself.

Do you need an Israeli parrot?

[Welshbeef]

Funkycoldribena said:

Welshbeef said:

Route causes

Is there a problem with the roads?

So clearly as an Israel supporter you refuse to address the points raised and highlight a predictive text error - Alex Salmond would welcome you into his fold exactly the tactic SNP use.

[anonymous-user]

That's what happens when you attempt a st joke in the middle of a grown-up discussion, Ribena.

[Countdown]

Funkycoldribena said:

Do you need an Israeli parrot?

Got one thanks

[audidoody]

Welshbeef said:

To be honest I think we should see the UN take over and actually control the boarders with Israel and Egypt)

They've all been there. Done it. And have all got the T-Shirt.

"UN Secretary-General U Thant's decision to abruptly remove UN forces, in response to Egyptian
President Gamal Abd al-Nasser's demand, is seen as one of the factors that led to the 1967 War, as
well as to a failure in peacekeeping"

http://www.gloria-center.org/meria/2005/06/Carroll...