Discussion
Countdown said:
S 8 GRN said:
JuniorD said:
I like the cut of Alexi Sayle's jib; Israel the Jimmy Savile of nations and other pertinent metaphors.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/...
Until of course he sounds like a complete prick in this https://audioboo.fm/boos/2348708-is-the-israel-gaz...http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/...
Why do Zionists label Jews who don't agree with them "self loathing Jews"?
There is no default position that if you're a Zionist you therefore support the action in Gaza.
There are different elements to Zionism.
I believe that there are individuals that use controversy to further their own personal agenda, I believe this to be the case in the individual concerned above, I believe he was called out for not denouncing the rise in anti-Semitism occurring.
What Israel is doing currently is unacceptable - they need to accept responsibility for the fact that they are the cause of the rise in attacks around the world - and that the whole f
kin point for me of an Israeli state and Zionism is to protect Jews from exactly this by holding governments to account instead of pissing people off and killing them in their own backyard, be a beacon of morality (which it is not), contribute to the people of the world (what ever their background)This said there is no place for anti-Semitism - it is on the rise - it is far deeper rooted than just Gaza driving people to express themselves in this abhorent way. It is evident on Pistonheads at times though perspective sadly will not reveal it to all. I can only hope that those on here and out there appreciate that fact else 6,000,000 died for nothing.
It ought to be obvious that Judaism is distinct from and mostly independent of Zionism, and thus anti-Zionism is separate from anti-Semitism.
Unfortunately there are at least two obstacles to this: the Zionists are keen to label attacks on them as more broadly anti-Semitic, since it benefits their narrative to do so, and secondly the high profile representatives of Judaism (e.g. Board of Deputies, anything Israeli) are often closely aligned with the interests of Israel and Zionism.
Unfortunately there are at least two obstacles to this: the Zionists are keen to label attacks on them as more broadly anti-Semitic, since it benefits their narrative to do so, and secondly the high profile representatives of Judaism (e.g. Board of Deputies, anything Israeli) are often closely aligned with the interests of Israel and Zionism.
Scuffers said:
At the very least, render them useless...
Could do worse then give them to the idf for disposal
To hand them back to the people using them is just laughable.
Ask yourself a question, if the un and other ngos were not there, would this have happened?
Which then begs the question, What are they doing there?
Render them useless: This assumes that a representative of the UN knows how to diffuse materiel. Do you know how to diffuse rockets? Thought not. More; if you were to find a cache of rockets in a place buzzing with IDF drones and spotters do you think getting on your knees and digging them up would be a good idea? The IDF have enough trouble telling the difference between children playing football on the beach and adults launching rockets. In short, your giblets are now probably halfway into orbit. FAIL.Could do worse then give them to the idf for disposal
To hand them back to the people using them is just laughable.
Ask yourself a question, if the un and other ngos were not there, would this have happened?
Which then begs the question, What are they doing there?
Give them to the IDF: And what do you reckon would be the reaction of the local Mr Big in Hamas when he finds out you've given away his toys? "Sorry Mr Hamas, I just stumbled upon them so I invited the nice people IDF to take them away". It wouldn't really wash would it? No, in fact you'd need to be emergency evacuated along with every other UN rep in Gaza because you've just proved that you're spying for the enemy. (Which would kinda undermine the whole point of the UN's existence - You know, the idea that they don't support either side). Anyway, we know what happens to spies. Mr Hamas is now roasting your b
ks over an open fire. Fortunately you are unaware of this because he blew your brains out when he found out what you did with his rockets. FAIL.Hand them back: Bingo. This is the only thing you can do without risking your own life and those of many others. If Hamas want to remove them, then they can risk being spotted by the IDF and blown to bits. If Hamas decide not to touch them then, praise the Lord, nobody is using them. Despite the fact that the Israelis (and a few tossers on the internet) are calling you names, you have survived largely intact. No jiffy bags required. You have not failed your mission, pick up £200 as you pass Go and, with luck, you'll live to draw a pension.
The UN are there to protect the innocent on both sides, not to represent you or Hamas or the Israeli defence force. It means treading a dangerous line. People who take on these roles are skilled negotiators who have been chosen because they can think themselves out of awkward situations, not make them worse. You, on the other hand, would have caused not only your own death but probably the deaths of many others and, at the same time, escalated the whole stupid bloody situation.
trashbat said:
It ought to be obvious that Judaism is distinct from and mostly independent of Zionism, and thus anti-Zionism is separate from anti-Semitism.
Unfortunately there are at least two obstacles to this: the Zionists are keen to label attacks on them as more broadly anti-Semitic, since it benefits their narrative to do so, and secondly the high profile representatives of Judaism (e.g. Board of Deputies, anything Israeli) are often closely aligned with the interests of Israel and Zionism.
There is nothing broad about the message death to all Jews - it's quite specific. Whether chanted at a pro Israeli rally or not the message is clear and clearly understood. Unfortunately there are at least two obstacles to this: the Zionists are keen to label attacks on them as more broadly anti-Semitic, since it benefits their narrative to do so, and secondly the high profile representatives of Judaism (e.g. Board of Deputies, anything Israeli) are often closely aligned with the interests of Israel and Zionism.
trashbat said:
That's not what I meant. I'm not denying that outright anti-Semitism exists as it clearly does. I mean that Zionists take criticism of Zionism and/or the Israeli state's behaviour and flag it up as being against all Jews.
I can appreciate how you can come to this position though I would say that this is not always the case and examples are always worth discussion. It is a spiral though and speaking personally the greater the anti-Semitism the stronger my Zionism becomes and so on and so forth. Though as stated before I unequivocally disagree with the current situation and actions. S 8 GRN said:
There is nothing broad about the message death to all Jews - it's quite specific. Whether chanted at a pro Israeli rally or not the message is clear and clearly understood.
So 600+ dead mainly children babies women and innocent men with thousands badly injured v 30 Israeli soldiers. Care to address this than skirt the issue. Welshbeef said:
S 8 GRN said:
There is nothing broad about the message death to all Jews - it's quite specific. Whether chanted at a pro Israeli rally or not the message is clear and clearly understood.
So 600+ dead mainly children babies women and innocent men with thousands badly injured v 30 Israeli soldiers. Care to address this than skirt the issue. S 8 GRN said:
Welshbeef said:
S 8 GRN said:
There is nothing broad about the message death to all Jews - it's quite specific. Whether chanted at a pro Israeli rally or not the message is clear and clearly understood.
So 600+ dead mainly children babies women and innocent men with thousands badly injured v 30 Israeli soldiers. Care to address this than skirt the issue. Welshbeef said:
S 8 GRN said:
Welshbeef said:
S 8 GRN said:
There is nothing broad about the message death to all Jews - it's quite specific. Whether chanted at a pro Israeli rally or not the message is clear and clearly understood.
So 600+ dead mainly children babies women and innocent men with thousands badly injured v 30 Israeli soldiers. Care to address this than skirt the issue. otherman said:
30 Israeli dead, mostly soldiers. 600 Palastinians, mostly civilians.
One side is aiming at mass population, failing and mainly killing uniformed soldiers whilst the other side is aiming at specific baddies, failing and mainly killing mass population. If you look at the result, it makes you wonder who is the worst terrorist.
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