Discussion
Jimbeaux said:
Art0ir said:
Jimbeaux said:
Simple question: Hamas has cumulatively launched around 2,000 rockets this go around into Israel. Obviously Israel have the right to defend themselves, nobody disagrees there. Hamas has placed said rocket launchers in schools, hospitals, etc. It really leaves no choice for Israel but to hit them where they are. Hamas of course welcomes the dead Palestinian children because 1)That is fantastic publicity (which works well on you). 2)Because they do not give a damn about those Palestinians to begin with, so no loss there. That my friend, puts the murder on the heads of Hamas IMO. What is your solution?
Before you answer, drink this in; leaving that strip of land, pre-1967 borders, etc. will not mean a damn thing. Israel existing at all is what pisses these people off; Gaza is simply a useful rallying point and sideshow for people that fall for it.
All of the above is correct.Before you answer, drink this in; leaving that strip of land, pre-1967 borders, etc. will not mean a damn thing. Israel existing at all is what pisses these people off; Gaza is simply a useful rallying point and sideshow for people that fall for it.
The key though, is support for Hamas. Without the blockade, they are nothing.
s off Israel in the only way available to them.Countdown said:
That makes them sound akin to the Judenrate of WW2. Stopping building of the Settlements would have been far more useful. If Israel genuinely wanted peace.
http://muftah.org/original-sin-how-the-oslo-accord...
Ah ok I now see your angle. Big, bad, expansionist Israel.http://muftah.org/original-sin-how-the-oslo-accord...
Sorry but when all around you says we want to exterminate you the only action open is attack and gain space. Real simple, real basic. Personally I am a little surprised that they haven't forcefully emptied Gaza and the West Bank over the last 50 years.
Grumfutock said:
Ah ok I now see your angle. Big, bad, expansionist Israel.
Sorry but when all around you says we want to exterminate you the only action open is attack and gain space. Real simple, real basic. Personally I am a little surprised that they haven't forcefully emptied Gaza and the West Bank over the last 50 years.
They're not bothered about "emptying" as such. The focus seems to be on corralling them into small manageable areas so that the Settlements can expand.Sorry but when all around you says we want to exterminate you the only action open is attack and gain space. Real simple, real basic. Personally I am a little surprised that they haven't forcefully emptied Gaza and the West Bank over the last 50 years.
Mojocvh said:
Time for an interlude. Chill time Guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAe0HCHJTDA
"Simple Minds".....Obviously lost on the entrenched.
Love a bit of Simple Minds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAe0HCHJTDA
"Simple Minds".....Obviously lost on the entrenched.
Edited by Mojocvh on Friday 25th July 19:41
Countdown said:
Jimbeaux said:
Simple question: Hamas has cumulatively launched around 2,000 rockets this go around into Israel. Obviously Israel have the right to defend themselves, nobody disagrees there. Hamas has placed said rocket launchers in schools, hospitals, etc. It really leaves no choice for Israel but to hit them where they are.
Actually israel has two choices (1) Continue bombing the Palestinians in the hope that eventually they decide living in a prison camp is better than death and the World gets bored of watching or (2) Make a genuine attempt at peace. the second option is much harder which is why we are where we are.Countdown said:
They're not bothered about "emptying" as such. The focus seems to be on corralling them into small manageable areas so that the Settlements can expand.
The West Bank does seem to resemble pockets or islands of Palestinian land broken up by Israeli settlements and 'Israeli-only' roads.Art0ir said:
Jimbeaux said:
Art0ir said:
Jimbeaux said:
Simple question: Hamas has cumulatively launched around 2,000 rockets this go around into Israel. Obviously Israel have the right to defend themselves, nobody disagrees there. Hamas has placed said rocket launchers in schools, hospitals, etc. It really leaves no choice for Israel but to hit them where they are. Hamas of course welcomes the dead Palestinian children because 1)That is fantastic publicity (which works well on you). 2)Because they do not give a damn about those Palestinians to begin with, so no loss there. That my friend, puts the murder on the heads of Hamas IMO. What is your solution?
Before you answer, drink this in; leaving that strip of land, pre-1967 borders, etc. will not mean a damn thing. Israel existing at all is what pisses these people off; Gaza is simply a useful rallying point and sideshow for people that fall for it.
All of the above is correct.Before you answer, drink this in; leaving that strip of land, pre-1967 borders, etc. will not mean a damn thing. Israel existing at all is what pisses these people off; Gaza is simply a useful rallying point and sideshow for people that fall for it.
The key though, is support for Hamas. Without the blockade, they are nothing.
s off Israel in the only way available to them.
So your answer would be yes?Countdown said:
Jimbeaux said:
With all respect CD, I believe it is Hamas and their deadly PR that is leading you by the nose. Again, my opinion.
Fair enough, it's all opinion anyway.can you give me an example of a concession that the Israelis have made in their quest for peace?
Countdown said:
supersingle said:
Suddenly your perspective becomes clear. There are hundreds of pages on that site all placing the blame at the feet of Israel and Zionism. I couldn't find a single scrap of criticism, blame or responsibility laid with the Arabs.
It pretty much says 'If Israel didn't exist, there would be peace.' Well whoopee-doo!
Is there anything in the link which is factually incorrect?It pretty much says 'If Israel didn't exist, there would be peace.' Well whoopee-doo!
There are certainly a few omissions!
Jimbeaux said:
Art0ir said:
Jimbeaux said:
Art0ir said:
Jimbeaux said:
Simple question: Hamas has cumulatively launched around 2,000 rockets this go around into Israel. Obviously Israel have the right to defend themselves, nobody disagrees there. Hamas has placed said rocket launchers in schools, hospitals, etc. It really leaves no choice for Israel but to hit them where they are. Hamas of course welcomes the dead Palestinian children because 1)That is fantastic publicity (which works well on you). 2)Because they do not give a damn about those Palestinians to begin with, so no loss there. That my friend, puts the murder on the heads of Hamas IMO. What is your solution?
Before you answer, drink this in; leaving that strip of land, pre-1967 borders, etc. will not mean a damn thing. Israel existing at all is what pisses these people off; Gaza is simply a useful rallying point and sideshow for people that fall for it.
All of the above is correct.Before you answer, drink this in; leaving that strip of land, pre-1967 borders, etc. will not mean a damn thing. Israel existing at all is what pisses these people off; Gaza is simply a useful rallying point and sideshow for people that fall for it.
The key though, is support for Hamas. Without the blockade, they are nothing.
s off Israel in the only way available to them. So your answer would be yes?The IRA were defeated not because they were outsmarted or beaten by force, but because the local population grew tired of them.
Give Gazans a reason to grow tired of Hamas. Show them things will be better with them gone. Prove that without Hamas, they won't be ridden over roughshod by the Israeli government any more.
Once that's done, you cut the heart out of Hamas and it withers and dies.
Edited by Art0ir on Friday 25th July 20:06
Art0ir said:
Jimbeaux said:
Art0ir said:
Jimbeaux said:
Art0ir said:
Jimbeaux said:
Simple question: Hamas has cumulatively launched around 2,000 rockets this go around into Israel. Obviously Israel have the right to defend themselves, nobody disagrees there. Hamas has placed said rocket launchers in schools, hospitals, etc. It really leaves no choice for Israel but to hit them where they are. Hamas of course welcomes the dead Palestinian children because 1)That is fantastic publicity (which works well on you). 2)Because they do not give a damn about those Palestinians to begin with, so no loss there. That my friend, puts the murder on the heads of Hamas IMO. What is your solution?
Before you answer, drink this in; leaving that strip of land, pre-1967 borders, etc. will not mean a damn thing. Israel existing at all is what pisses these people off; Gaza is simply a useful rallying point and sideshow for people that fall for it.
All of the above is correct.Before you answer, drink this in; leaving that strip of land, pre-1967 borders, etc. will not mean a damn thing. Israel existing at all is what pisses these people off; Gaza is simply a useful rallying point and sideshow for people that fall for it.
The key though, is support for Hamas. Without the blockade, they are nothing.
s off Israel in the only way available to them. So your answer would be yes?The IRA were defeated not because they were outsmarted or beaten by force, but because the local population grew tired of them.
A hypothetical quessy here;
Say Hamas evaporated overnight, what do you think the Israeli long term aim is:
1. One nation, Israel, Jewish constitution.
2. Two distinct sovereign nations, both independent and with resources and land required to be relatively self-sustained, one Jewish, the other likely Muslim.
3. Other.
Say Hamas evaporated overnight, what do you think the Israeli long term aim is:
1. One nation, Israel, Jewish constitution.
2. Two distinct sovereign nations, both independent and with resources and land required to be relatively self-sustained, one Jewish, the other likely Muslim.
3. Other.
Art0ir said:
You'll have to forgive me, this thread is full of such traps.
The IRA were defeated not because they were outsmarted or beaten by force, but because the local population grew tired of them.
Give Gazans a reason to grow tired of Hamas. Show them things will be better with them gone. Prove that without Hamas, they won't be ridden over roughshod by the Israeli government any more.
Once that's done, you cut the heart out of Hamas and it withers and dies.
Give them dosh (conditions attached), give them hope, and give them respect - divide & unite. The IRA were defeated not because they were outsmarted or beaten by force, but because the local population grew tired of them.
Give Gazans a reason to grow tired of Hamas. Show them things will be better with them gone. Prove that without Hamas, they won't be ridden over roughshod by the Israeli government any more.
Once that's done, you cut the heart out of Hamas and it withers and dies.
Scuffers said:
Art0ir said:
You'll have to forgive me, this thread is full of such traps.
The IRA were defeated not because they were outsmarted or beaten by force, but because the local population grew tired of them.
No, they realised the game was up when the cash from the US dried up.The IRA were defeated not because they were outsmarted or beaten by force, but because the local population grew tired of them.
Mojocvh said:
Jimbo, how has PotUS's [is that right? we used to actually use their names], you know efforts at gaining release of those Nigerian kidnapped schoolgirls going?
We hear nothing of it. Obama's Hollywood supporters made huge noises about it for about two days, so he did as well. They grew bored and moved on to this week's cause so he did as well. Golf and fundraisers continue uninterrupted though; so, steady as she goes!Mojocvh said:
Scuffers said:
Art0ir said:
You'll have to forgive me, this thread is full of such traps.
The IRA were defeated not because they were outsmarted or beaten by force, but because the local population grew tired of them.
No, they realised the game was up when the cash from the US dried up.The IRA were defeated not because they were outsmarted or beaten by force, but because the local population grew tired of them.
Mrr T said:
RedTrident said:
Why is it simplistic? And I don't really care that worse is happening elsewhere because as far as I'm concerned that would be wrong as well.
What Israel has done, particularly in the school, is murder.
Evidence?What Israel has done, particularly in the school, is murder.
The tide amongst the ordinary citizen is turning against Israel. As every day goes by and another child murdered it is clear that Israel is finally being seen for what it really is.
Mojocvh said:
Well, there's the answer then...............fund Gaza and let the Israeli state stand on it's own two feet...
That's an interesting point. How about giving them the same armaments as Israel and then let them fight it out? Might at least balance up the shocking death toll a bit.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff