Israeli

[JensenA]

It's quite ironic that the Israelis are adopting the same tactics that the Nazi's used against the French resistance movement in WW2. The Nazis destroyed whole towns and villages to retaliate against the deaths of German soldiers killed by the resistance, in an attempt to turn the French people against the resistance movement. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. The only way the Israelis can win over the Palestinian people i- which is the only way to beat Hammas - is to stop building settlements and forcibly evicting Palestinians from the homes they have lived in for hundreds of years. If they begin to treat the ordinary Palestinians with respect, then the ordinary Palestine people would turn against Hammas. The ordinary people may not agree with Hammas, but supporting, or having some sympathy to them, is the only way that have of retaliating against a nation that treats them with contempt.

Edited by JensenA on Monday 28th July 11:11

[Qwert1e]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Most of the world couldn't give a stuff about the Palestinians.

Whilst presumably an accurate expression of your personal view, it's nothing more than that.

Nice attitude by the way.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Qwert1e said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Most of the world couldn't give a stuff about the Palestinians.

Whilst presumably an accurate expression of your personal view, it's nothing more than that.

Nice attitude by the way.

I never said I agreed with it. People should care, but they don't.

[psgcarey]

Transmitter Man said:

All true and documented.

Facts I feel some are happy to forget in the current crisis.

Israel has always been somewhat lacking in the PR department although I wish I could find the clip where Bibi replied to one Turkish woman by asking her, "if you were in Istanbul and had rockets raining down would you just stand there or retaliate?"

In recent times Turkey had their fair share of problems with the Kurds.

They managed to behave like adults and find peace.

[franki68]

allnighter said:

do not care much for Hamas, so let's be clear about that.Hamas and Israel carry the responsibility for this situation. Targetting civilians VIOLATES international law, whether it's done by Hamas or Israel.Can we at least agree on that?

Dragging Israel before the International Criminal Court on accusations of war crimes is a non-starter, said a senior Palestinian official, because the Palestinians themselves are guilty of blatant war crimes.

“The missiles that are now being launched against Israel, each and every missile constitutes a crime against humanity, whether it hits or misses, because it is directed at civilian targets,” Ibrahim Khraishi (pictured), the Palestinian ambassador to the UN Human Rights Council, told Palestinian Authority TV last week.

By contrast, Khraishi said that Israel had very cleverly adhered to international rules of engagement, so even if the Palestinian death toll is higher, legally Israel is still in the right.

“Many of our people in Gaza appeared on TV and said that the Israelis warned them to evacuate their homes before the bombardment. In such a case, if someone is killed, the law considers it a mistake rather than an intentional killing because [the Israelis] followed the legal procedures,” he explained

[Pappa Lurve]

JensenA said:

It's quite ironic that the Israelis are adopting the same tactics that the Nazi's used against the French resistance movement in WW2. The Nazis destroyed whole towns and villages to retaliate against the deaths of German soldiers killed by the resistance, in an attempt to turn the French people against the resistance movement. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. The only way the Israelis can win over the Palestinian people i- which is the only way to beat Hammas - is to stop building settlements and forcibly evicting Palestinians from the homes they have lived in for hundreds of years. If they begin to treat the ordinary Palestinians with respect, then the ordinary Palestine people would turn against Hammas. The ordinary people may not agree with Hammas, but supporting, or having some sympathy to them, is the only way that have of retaliating against a nation that treats them with contempt.

Edited by JensenA on Monday 28th July 11:11

Come back when you have something of value to add. Lets be clear here, should Israel wish to destroy the Plaestinians wholesale it is not exactly hard to do. And for those who comp`re it to camps - I have physically been there over a period of many years. It is not exactly Monaco but II do find it curious how people who have nbever been, never seen it and largely know littlle aabout it can feel they are qualified to say what it is like there.

[Funkycoldribena]

franki68 said:

allnighter said:

do not care much for Hamas, so let's be clear about that.Hamas and Israel carry the responsibility for this situation. Targetting civilians VIOLATES international law, whether it's done by Hamas or Israel.Can we at least agree on that?

Dragging Israel before the International Criminal Court on accusations of war crimes is a non-starter, said a senior Palestinian official, because the Palestinians themselves are guilty of blatant war crimes.

“The missiles that are now being launched against Israel, each and every missile constitutes a crime against humanity, whether it hits or misses, because it is directed at civilian targets,” Ibrahim Khraishi (pictured), the Palestinian ambassador to the UN Human Rights Council, told Palestinian Authority TV last week.

By contrast, Khraishi said that Israel had very cleverly adhered to international rules of engagement, so even if the Palestinian death toll is higher, legally Israel is still in the right.

“Many of our people in Gaza appeared on TV and said that the Israelis warned them to evacuate their homes before the bombardment. In such a case, if someone is killed, the law considers it a mistake rather than an intentional killing because [the Israelis] followed the legal procedures,” he explained

Thats the difference,Hamas target civilians,Israel dont,even though Countdown and allnighter etc would try to have you believe otherwise.

[anonymous-user]

Khraishi still considers the Israeli bombardment as criminal even though technically they are within the law because phone call warnings were given. I don't think anyone at all on here has said that Hamas' rockets are anything but criminal. Khraishi also highlights the other things that the Israelis are doing that are considered crimes against humanity, many of them being carried out against West Bank Palestinians who are not rocketing Israel like Hamas.
So Hamas are still wrong, Israel is still wrong. What about Fatah?

[anonymous-user]

The Israelis should support Fatah, evacuate the West Bank of Israeli settlements (plus land to the East of that) make that the new Palestine, make sure Gazans see that as a Fatah/Israel accomplishment, undermine Hamas, invite Gazans to the new promised land in the West Bank, make Jerusalem a special status shared capital.
Please discuss.......

[Grumfutock]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

In 2006 Israel has supplied them with arms and ammo before. Fat lot of good it did them PR wise with Gazans.

[franki68]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

agree,the palestinians in the west bank must recognize israel and assure its security in return israel should get rid of the settlements and inject large investment there so there is a viable economy.

Both sides must take the utmost care with the religious fanatics who would try to undermine any peace.

[Jimbeaux]

Have we solved anything yet? No? OK, I'll check back later.

[Grumfutock]

Jimbeaux said:

Have we solved anything yet? No? OK, I'll check back later.

May I suggest in about 5,000 years. We still wont of solved it but by then the Space Monkeys would of come down and banned religion.

[Art0ir]

Jimbeaux said:

Have we solved anything yet? No? OK, I'll check back later.

I told you what I think needs to be done. You're probably the only one on thread with less than six degrees of separation from the people that can make it happen

[anonymous-user]

Oh yes the good old USA.
The main weapons supplier to Israel. Let's see how they do.
Hey Jim, just a minute y'all, there's a potential solution just above^^^^^^, what do you think?

[Jimbeaux]

Art0ir said:

Jimbeaux said:

Have we solved anything yet? No? OK, I'll check back later.

I told you what I think needs to be done. You're probably the only one on thread with less than six degrees of separation from the people that can make it happen

I suppose I'll take that as a compliment.....maybe.

[Jimbeaux]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Think for a minute what the Arabs would do if given the same weapons. Do you think they would be as reserved? Let me save you the effort, the answer is Hell no. BTW, I think your Fatah solution has merit.

[allnighter]

Mrr T said:

allnighter said:

disagree with some points he raised about the conflict.Looking at the problem from an operational and a military point of view is always going to miss out on more important factors such as the history of the region and why things are as bad as they are now. His opinion on settlements shows a poor understanding of the conflict.


http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/doc...

Your link to a report produced under the sponsorship of the UN Human Rights Council. Which includes amongst its current membership such stalwarts of Human Rights as, Algeria, Cuba, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Russia, UAE, and Viet man.
I also believe at one stage its lead author rejected its findings.
The report has also been criticised by others.

http://www.alandershowitz.com/goldstone.pdf

Judge Goldstone expressed regrets on 'some' of his findings, but he did not exactly explain what new evidence led him to express those regrets.Obviously this did not totally exonerate the IDF or Israel for that matter, so let's not start jumping in jubilation over it.Besides not only did the report criticise Israel, but it did Hamas too. The point in contention is whether Israel was 'deliberately' targeting civilians in Gaza, like Hamas was doing to Israeli civilians as a matter of policy.
My feeling is whether it was a matter of policy or not the civilian death toll caused by Israel cannot be ignored and should be condemned.

"The Goldstone report is a historical milestone. It is a credible, reasoned, comprehensive and thoroughly researched account of atrocities – war crimes and crimes against humanity – committed by Israel in the course of Operation Cast Lead, and of war crimes committed by Hamas in the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel. It is a serious attempt to secure the accountability of a state that has for too long been allowed by the west to behave in a lawless manner.

That the credibility of the Goldstone report has been undermined by Goldstone's strange op-ed in the Washington Post cannot be denied.

Although the report was authored by four experts with the backing of a team from the office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, it has undoubtedly come to be associated with the name of Richard Goldstone. Inevitably the misgivings he has expressed about his own role in the report will weaken its impact as an historical record of Operation Cast Lead.

Already, the Israeli government has expressed delight at what it construes to be a retraction of the report, and demanded both a contrite apology from Goldstone and a refutation of the report by the United Nations. Predictably the US department of state has welcomed Goldstone`s op-ed, and one fears that European governments will find in it an excuse to justify their continued support for Israel.

Richard Goldstone has devoted much of his life to the cause of accountability for international crimes. It is sad that this champion of accountability and international criminal justice should abandon the cause in such an ill-considered but nevertheless extremely harmful op-ed."

John Dugard is professor of law at the University of Pretoria, emeritus professor of the University of Leiden and former UN special rapporteur on human rights in the occupied Palestinian territory.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/201...

[allnighter]

enioldjoe said:

allnighter said:

enioldjoe said:

allnighter said:

S 8 GRN said:

allnighter said:

most of the world is against state sponsored terrorism by high tech weaponery against civilians. If the target is hamas fighters then man up go in and hunt them street by street. Killing babies and children is cowardly to any civilized person and if you cannot grasp that then you have no moral fibre unfortunately.

Is that a you gov poll you're quoting? Most of the world my ass. As for the killing you're spot on - it is exactly the reason the IDF is carrying out the current operation. Given that Hamas has launched over 1000 rockets since this latest escalation began and over 11,000 in the last 14 years I'd ask you to consult with your same data source, yes the one that you quote as most of the world, what on gods earth they think the plan was for those rockets fired into Israel. Of course my mistake they were landscaping - Grand Designs Hamas style. And as for high tech - access to missiles that can reach Haifa are pretty damn high tech where I come from. Less of the pity pls - Hamas are cold blooded killers.

Most of the world is exactly what it means, the international community that adheres strongly to the principles of decency and respects international law. Targeting civilians by a state is against international law no matter who the offender is.Israeli self-defense does not give it the God given right to kill over a thousand Gazan civilians, to bomb hospitals, or warn Gazans to evacuate buildings when they have nowhere to go, as well as destroy all infrastructure just to get back at her foe. It is not considered or viewed as a civilised behaviour by most of the world, especially, if the perpetrator claims to be a 'civilised democracy' and worthy of that title.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/a-supportive-british-colonel-and-a-bleak-vision-of-endless-costly-military-operations/

I disagree with some points he raised about the conflict.Looking at the problem from an operational and a military point of view is always going to miss out on more important factors such as the history of the region and why things are as bad as they are now. His opinion on settlements shows a poor understanding of the conflict.


http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/doc...

I'm guessing he would understand the history of the region. And also the origin and history of the UN.......

Interesting how the report brings up Mr Goldstone. http://www.timesofisrael.com/will-goldstone-2-be-a...

From your link above "
On April 1, 2011, Goldstone partially retracted – not repudiated, as some pro-Israel advocates like to say..." Israel was far from exonerated by the looks of it.

[BlackLabel]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

In an ideal world that is what should happen however Hamas or no Hamas there will always be a small minority of those from the Palestinian territories who will launch some kind of attack on Israel - be it rockets or suicide bombings. And Israel of course will retaliate in the manner it has done so recently. And round and round we go.

Personally I think those currently in Gaza/The West Bank or have historical ties to the region (within say the last 100 years not 2000+years ago) should be given financial incentives to re settle elsewhere in the world. Preferably other Middle Eastern nations who, along with Israel, should fund it all.

The remaining few hundred thousand should be given Israeli citizenship and the whole region (Israel+Gaza+WB) should just be one country.