Israeli

[NoNeed]

Scuffers said:

NoNeed said:

Are Hamas a recognised government of a recognised nation?

they are recognised as the government of Gaza..

(they won the election as we keep getting told)

And is Gaza a recognised nation?

[Countdown]

Jimbeaux said:

Egyptians have shown reasonableness in the last decades is perhaps why they feel no need for a buffer that direction. Egypt just got through brokering a ceasefire that Hamas turned down.....but you go on believeing.

Erm no Jimbeaux. Firstly Egypt (or more specifically the Egyptian military dictatorship) accepted the shedloads of money the US gives it every year in return for not upsetting Israel too much. Who needs democracies when dictatorships are far easier to buy?

Secondly it was a ceasefire that proposal that wasn't actually discussed with Hamas. If "buy-in" was needed from both parties would it not have made more sense to discuss the terms of the ceasefire with both parties?

[Mermaid]

Jimbeaux said:

That reminds me; the Israelis have nukes and have not used them. If Hamas Arabs had them, do you feel they would refrain?

You know the answer to that.

But if Israel used Nukes in such local difficulties, would/could the US carry on supporting them?

[Jimbeaux]

Countdown said:

Jimbeaux said:

Egyptians have shown reasonableness in the last decades is perhaps why they feel no need for a buffer that direction. Egypt just got through brokering a ceasefire that Hamas turned down.....but you go on believeing.

Erm no Jimbeaux. Firstly Egypt (or more specifically the Egyptian military dictatorship) accepted the shedloads of money the US gives it every year in return for not upsetting Israel too much. Who needs democracies when dictatorships are far easier to buy?

Secondly it was a ceasefire that proposal that wasn't actually discussed with Hamas. If "buy-in" was needed from both parties would it not have made more sense to discuss the terms of the ceasefire with both parties?

So, if not for paid up military dictatorships, they too would join in attacking Israel? Sounds like we made a sound choice then.

[Funkycoldribena]

Mermaid said:

As Jimbeaux says, what either of us thinks matters not, so don't worry. When, and not if, a final outcome is reached we can do a post-mortem of who thought what

I am optimistic.

Bit like the Jimmy Saville RIp thread?

[Countdown]

Jimbeaux said:

So, if not for paid up military dictatorships, they too would join in attacking Israel? Sounds like we made a sound choice then.

It depends on how you look at it. When you support a dictatorship the people that are suppressed tend to consider you the same as the Dictator. So they'll always be looking for ways to get back at you. And when they do, it's no point scratching your head, looking puzzled, and suggesting it's "your way of life" that they're attacking.

[Jimbeaux]

Countdown said:

Jimbeaux said:

So, if not for paid up military dictatorships, they too would join in attacking Israel? Sounds like we made a sound choice then.

It depends on how you look at it. When you support a dictatorship the people that are suppressed tend to consider you the same as the Dictator. So they'll always be looking for ways to get back at you. And when they do, it's no point scratching your head, looking puzzled, and suggesting it's "your way of life" that they're attacking.

It is our way of life that the likes of Hamas are attacking, it has jack st to do with "Palestine". Freedom of religion, educating women, gay rights(which I find wildly hypocritical) is what they are pissed at.As for the Egyptians, it appears the people are more trusting of their military than other alternatives. Does not speak well of the alternatives.

[Countdown]

Jimbeaux said:

It is our way of life that the likes of Hamas are attacking, it has jack st to do with "Palestine".

Sorry but that's complete and utter rubbish. Their charter (which many people are happy to refer to when it suits them) explains exactly what their main objective is. Very few people give a st about "way of life" (except asn an excuse for explaining why they've been attacked)

Jimbeaux said:

As for the Egyptians, it appears the people are more trusting of their military than other alternatives. Does not speak well of the alternatives.

The alternatives being shot and killed, or arrested and sentenced to death. They don't trust the military any more than they did under Hosni Mubarak. Next you'll be saying that the people "loved" Reza Pahlavi and the Revolution was just some anti-democratic

[Jimbeaux]

Countdown said:

Jimbeaux said:

It is our way of life that the likes of Hamas are attacking, it has jack st to do with "Palestine".

Sorry but that's complete and utter rubbish. Their charter (which many people are happy to refer to when it suits them) explains exactly what their main objective is. Very few people give a st about "way of life" (except asn an excuse for explaining why they've been attacked)

Jimbeaux said:

As for the Egyptians, it appears the people are more trusting of their military than other alternatives. Does not speak well of the alternatives.

The alternatives being shot and killed, or arrested and sentenced to death. They don't trust the military any more than they did under Hosni Mubarak. Next you'll be saying that the people "loved" Reza Pahlavi and the Revolution was just some anti-democratic

I disagree, I don't believe it is rubbish at all. You give too much credit to Hamas. You speak of them as some legitimate organization to be treated on equal terms.

[NelsonR32]

Funkycoldribena said:

Mermaid said:

Hamas want to be treated fairly and with respect. And want some land back. Do not want the blockade. Want some money - a deal to be done. me thinks.

I really dont know what to say.

If you really don't know what to say then don't say anything instead of "I don't know why to say".

God. You must have said it at least 4 times already on this thread.

[FredClogs]

Jimbeaux said:

Countdown said:

Jimbeaux said:

So, if not for paid up military dictatorships, they too would join in attacking Israel? Sounds like we made a sound choice then.

It depends on how you look at it. When you support a dictatorship the people that are suppressed tend to consider you the same as the Dictator. So they'll always be looking for ways to get back at you. And when they do, it's no point scratching your head, looking puzzled, and suggesting it's "your way of life" that they're attacking.

It is our way of life that the likes of Hamas are attacking, it has jack st to do with "Palestine". Freedom of religion, educating women, gay rights(which I find wildly hypocritical) is what they are pissed at.As for the Egyptians, it appears the people are more trusting of their military than other alternatives. Does not speak well of the alternatives.

Wow cowboy...

Can I just ask, are you Jewish? Do you have a connection to Israel? Because you might want to take a little look at the makeup of the Knesset, it's not exactly full of people anyone could describes as secular, areligious, liberal or non military. Netenyahu's history and familly background reads like a Jack Reacher novel, he's a military man to the bones.

[Funkycoldribena]

NelsonR32 said:

If you really don't know what to say then don't say anything instead of "I don't know why to say".

God. You must have said it at least 4 times already on this thread.

Because I've heard the same old st spouted 40 times on this thread,so a ratio of 1 in 10 ain't bad.

[Jimbeaux]

FredClogs said:

Jimbeaux said:

Countdown said:

Jimbeaux said:

So, if not for paid up military dictatorships, they too would join in attacking Israel? Sounds like we made a sound choice then.

It depends on how you look at it. When you support a dictatorship the people that are suppressed tend to consider you the same as the Dictator. So they'll always be looking for ways to get back at you. And when they do, it's no point scratching your head, looking puzzled, and suggesting it's "your way of life" that they're attacking.

It is our way of life that the likes of Hamas are attacking, it has jack st to do with "Palestine". Freedom of religion, educating women, gay rights(which I find wildly hypocritical) is what they are pissed at.As for the Egyptians, it appears the people are more trusting of their military than other alternatives. Does not speak well of the alternatives.

Wow cowboy...

Can I just ask, are you Jewish? Do you have a connection to Israel? Because you might want to take a little look at the makeup of the Knesset, it's not exactly full of people anyone could describes as secular, areligious, liberal or non military. Netenyahu's history and familly background reads like a Jack Reacher novel, he's a military man to the bones.

Not Jewish (no connections) or even a cowboy for that matter. As for BN being military to the bones, if one lives in a tiny landlocked nation surrounded by those who have vowed to destroy them, one tends to be somewhat "military". Are you Muslim or Arabic, in case that matters?

[NelsonR32]

FredClogs said:

Jimbeaux said:

The 1967 borders might be a problem. You see, five nations attacked with the intent of wiping them off the grid;

Complete nonsense, ridiculous, strawman, revisionist nonsense, ill informed, propagandist and worst of all designed to not only propagate the "war" but also aggravate the nations who Israel pre emptively struck and STARTED a war with. A war to capture land that has effectively continued for nearly 50 years.

Israel was never and has never been invaded/attacked or anywhere near threatened by any other than daft rhetoric and a few harsh words.

I've never even heard a hardcore zionist say that before. Usually it's "Israel needed a buffer zone" which is a laughable excuse for invasion.

[Countdown]

Jimbeaux said:

Not Jewish (no connections) or even a cowboy for that matter. As for BN being military to the bones, if one lives in a tiny landlocked nation surrounded by those who have vowed to destroy them, one tends to be somewhat "military". Are you Muslim or Arabic, in case that matters?

Again, the same rhetoric spouted repeated as if it's fact.

israel has a peace treaty with Egypt. It has a peace treaty with Jordan. It would have a peace treaty with Syria had it been prepared to return the Golan heights. it would have a peace treaty with the Palestinians if it agreed to a viable Two-state solution.

But it doesn't need to make peace with either Syria OR the Palestinians so it doesn't. It wants to keep the lands it has annexed which it can afford to do because of its military superiority. So perhaps we should give up with the "tiny landlocked nation surrounded by those who have vowed to destroy them," victim card?

[Jimbeaux]

Countdown said:

Jimbeaux said:

Not Jewish (no connections) or even a cowboy for that matter. As for BN being military to the bones, if one lives in a tiny landlocked nation surrounded by those who have vowed to destroy them, one tends to be somewhat "military". Are you Muslim or Arabic, in case that matters?

Again, the same rhetoric spouted repeated as if it's fact.

israel has a peace treaty with Egypt. It has a peace treaty with Jordan. It would have a peace treaty with Syria had it been prepared to return the Golan heights. it would have a peace treaty with the Palestinians if it agreed to a viable Two-state solution.

But it doesn't need to make peace with either Syria OR the Palestinians so it doesn't. It wants to keep the lands it has annexed which it can afford to do because of its military superiority. So perhaps we should give up with the "tiny landlocked nation surrounded by those who have vowed to destroy them," victim card?

I hope I answered fred's question.

[Countdown]

Jimbeaux said:

I hope I answered fred's question.

Well, you tried, but I'm not sure if even you believe it.

[S 8 GRN]

FredClogs said:

Jimbeaux said:

Countdown said:

Jimbeaux said:

So, if not for paid up military dictatorships, they too would join in attacking Israel? Sounds like we made a sound choice then.

It depends on how you look at it. When you support a dictatorship the people that are suppressed tend to consider you the same as the Dictator. So they'll always be looking for ways to get back at you. And when they do, it's no point scratching your head, looking puzzled, and suggesting it's "your way of life" that they're attacking.

It is our way of life that the likes of Hamas are attacking, it has jack st to do with "Palestine". Freedom of religion, educating women, gay rights(which I find wildly hypocritical) is what they are pissed at.As for the Egyptians, it appears the people are more trusting of their military than other alternatives. Does not speak well of the alternatives.

Wow cowboy...

Can I just ask, are you Jewish? Do you have a connection to Israel? Because you might want to take a little look at the makeup of the Knesset, it's not exactly full of people anyone could describes as secular, areligious, liberal or non military. Netenyahu's history and familly background reads like a Jack Reacher novel, he's a military man to the bones.

Perfectly qualified given the st they have to deal with. Know anyone with a better CV?

[raftom]

Jimbeaux said:

That reminds me; the Israelis have nukes and have not used them. If Hamas had nukes, do you feel they would refrain?

Or would they ever behave like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxC11QMMf9c (SFW)

[S 8 GRN]

FredClogs said:

Jimbeaux said:

The 1967 borders might be a problem. You see, five nations attacked with the intent of wiping them off the grid;

Complete nonsense, ridiculous, strawman, revisionist nonsense, ill informed, propagandist and worst of all designed to not only propagate the "war" but also aggravate the nations who Israel pre emptively struck and STARTED a war with. A war to capture land that has effectively continued for nearly 50 years.

Israel was never and has never been invaded/attacked or anywhere near threatened by any other than daft rhetoric and a few harsh words.

Is it true your local Tesco has run of tin foil Fred? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War - I see what you did there - because they attacked the Israeli's in the 'occupied territories' it doesn't count? Right?