Israeli

Author
Discussion

andymadmak

14,481 posts

269 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Qwert1e said:
S 8 GRN said:
Hence the reason to fight so hard in order to keep a homeland.
If it was a "hard" fight you might achieve some small credibility. Sadly it's an "easy" fight, with Israel shelling civilians and using high-tech weaponry to carry out reprisal attacks/killings.

Only Israel and its deluded supporters think it is winning anything at all.
Would you be happier if more people were dying in Israel? How many would be acceptable to you?
What was your position on the 67 war? Are there no circumstances under which you would put any responsibility on Hamas? Are the Israelis deliberately shelling civilians? Or are they attacking launcher sites and other key targets - targets that Hamas has deliberately placed in civilian areas? If its the latter, what should Israel do differently? What should Hamas do?

You have to see that there is wrong on both sides in this.

RedTrident

8,290 posts

234 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
S 8 GRN said:
RedTrident said:
No one really gives a fk that people are Jewish anymore.
rolleyes

Hence the reason to fight so hard in order to keep a homeland. Ta da. Thanks pal for helping everyone to understand in just one sentence.
You're a nasty man to lift my sentence that way. Disgusting thing to do. In the same way I don't give a fk that my neighbours are 2 gay men I wouldn't care if they're Jewish. Anti Semitism is not what it was in the last century. Now stop trying to change the meaning of what I said.

Edited by RedTrident on Tuesday 29th July 21:23

Jimbeaux

33,791 posts

230 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
andymadmak said:
Gandahar said:
Very good points.

You've written a lot, very well, but you have only outlined the problems and what is wrong. Anyone can do that, politicians have to try and make it better

So, what is your solution that will work?
My solution?

Well, for a start we need to get the USA, the Russians, the EU and the Chinese in a room to agree unequivocally that they will do what it takes to reign the various factions in. That means the real threat of large scale sanctions/action against any party that steps out of line in the region. And I do mean ANY party.

Next I would tell Israel it had to go back to the 67 borders. Areas like the Golan Heights would not be returned to the states from whence they came, but instead would be held by the UN as a form of buffer zone. In return Israel would be given cast iron assurances as to its security within those borders from all the neighboring states, and enforced by threat of harsh repurcussions from all the USA, Russians, EU and Chinese.
In return for going back to the 67 borders Israel would not have to accept the return of displaced Arabs.

Then resources should be put into creating a viable Palestinian state from the WB and Gaza, with a UN protected corridor linking the two.

Then I would begin a large scale program of youth integration in neutral locations around the world. Young Israelis and Palestinians would be forced to spend time together for a period so that they could begin to learn to accept each other as human beings. I have given up on educating the older guys, but the future is the youth and enlightenment should help to anchor the peace in the long term. It would be a bit like national service..no opt outs, the kids would HAVE to do it.

Jerusalem would be made an international city

Any acts of terror,by any group on any side would be investigated by independant international observers and those responsible would be tried in an international court.


All the above is probably crap, but perhaps some of it might be in the right direction? One thing is for sure, it would be financially expensive, but if it helped to secure long term peace in the Middle East it would represent the bargain of the millenium for humanity as a whole
I like this Andy.

Jimbeaux

33,791 posts

230 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
JuniorD said:
Jimbeaux said:
FredClogs said:
Jimbeaux said:
FredClogs said:
jonby said:
But not a bad start considering how young the country is
Palestine (or an ancient naming of it) is over 4000 years old and the land was probably inhabited before then, hardly new, and people have been fighting over it on and off for most of that time...

Life for arabs in Israel, especially in Jerusalem is getting increasingly difficult, it's well documented.
Documentation then please.
Seriously? You can't use google or pick up a news paper?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/27/the-n...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/israels-ethnic-cleans...

and a more general journal...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2012/11/23/what_d...
Why, when I can make you do it. hehe
Juvenile and antagonizing was it not? Just the level of response he, and appearently you, rate. Stop playing with yourself, you'll go blind. Now, back to the adult conversation please. thumbup

RedTrident

8,290 posts

234 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Jimbeaux said:
RedTrident said:
Jimbeaux said:
This is historic, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, The Arab League and even the PA has agreed to the Egyptian deal. only Hamas shot it down because it did not meet their demands. The PA cannot get that scum Hamas from around their neck, that cannot even speak for themselves. John Kerry stuck his nose in and screwed up this possibly going through. The PA even was angered by his meddling as they want the deal as well. I love how a tiny few of you on here cannot see the obvious. Instead of aiming your anger at Hamas for sacrificing the Palestinians for their personal agenda, you lash out at the Israelis. It is becoming obvious you few's true loyalties seem to lie with Hamas themselves. Good job, supporting subhuman scum such as that.
Give over, no one in this thread has at any point supported Hamas or been anti Semitic. Don't get me wrong, certain posters have regularly thrown these accusations around in the hope that they can stifle debate and distract away from the actions of a state that are employing tactics comparable to the Nazis to kill women and children.

As for the obvious, we all see it, an ongoing avoidance by Israel to create a viable Palestinian state and the end of Settlement building. I see today's news is that Israel have blown up the tv stations to make it more difficult for them to report, and the port and power station also. This isn't about attacking Hamas, rather about punishing the people of Gaza for electing Hamas.
Punishing Gaza for electing Hamas? That is interesting, at least I have not heard that one yet on here. With all respect, I am not sure I agree. I still believe this goes far beyond the Palestinian question. smile

Edited by Jimbeaux on Tuesday 29th July 15:06
Actions speak louder than words I think is the saying.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/gaza-...

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
If Israel was sponsored by Russia, the US attitude would be very different - embargos etc..

So many Israelis are Russians.

trashbat

6,005 posts

152 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Anyone feel like condoning the destruction of the power plant as anything other than collective punishment?

The power behind water, sewage, medical facilities.

kitz

328 posts

176 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Apartheid state IDF deaths 53
Refugees ( beasts with 2 legs ) 1200 dead .

Palestine deaths are becoming difficult to count ...
The counters get killed . The rescuers get killed ......they can't charge their mobile phones ..!
The infrastructure is shattered ..no power no water ... And so on ..

Menachem Began former Israeli prime minister and a man who knew plenty about terror
never denied his quote about Palestinians being ...beasts with 2 legs
Along with other deeply unpleasant remarks ...


The atrocities continue ....

andymadmak

14,481 posts

269 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
trashbat said:
Anyone feel like condoning the destruction of the power plant as anything other than collective punishment?

The power behind water, sewage, medical facilities.
Is the plant destroyed? I hope not. The BBC report ( fwiw) suggests that a fuel tank has been hit, forcing the shut down of the plant. Hopefully this could be repaired quickly?

This violence has to stop. But I fear it will only do so when both sides have grown sick of the sight of blood.

trashbat

6,005 posts

152 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
andymadmak said:
Is the plant destroyed? I hope not. The BBC report ( fwiw) suggests that a fuel tank has been hit, forcing the shut down of the plant. Hopefully this could be repaired quickly?

This violence has to stop. But I fear it will only do so when both sides have grown sick of the sight of blood.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/gaza-...

Graun said:
Gaza's only power plant destroyed in Israel's most intense air strike yet

"The power plant is finished," said its director, Mohammed al-Sharif, signalling a new crisis for Gaza's 1.8 million people, who were already enduring power cuts of more than 20 hours a day.

Amnesty International said the crippling of the power station amounted to "collective punishment of Palestinians". The strike on the plant will worsen already severe problems with Gaza's water supply, sewage treatment and power supplies to medical facilities.

"We need at least one year to repair the power plant, the turbines, the fuel tanks and the control room," said Fathi Sheik Khalil of the Gaza energy authority. "Everything was burned." He said crew members who had been trapped by the fire for several hours were evacuated.

Gaza City officials said damage to the power station could paralyse pumps, and urged residents to ration water.

andymadmak

14,481 posts

269 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
trashbat said:
andymadmak said:
Is the plant destroyed? I hope not. The BBC report ( fwiw) suggests that a fuel tank has been hit, forcing the shut down of the plant. Hopefully this could be repaired quickly?

This violence has to stop. But I fear it will only do so when both sides have grown sick of the sight of blood.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/gaza-...

Graun said:
Gaza's only power plant destroyed in Israel's most intense air strike yet

"The power plant is finished," said its director, Mohammed al-Sharif, signalling a new crisis for Gaza's 1.8 million people, who were already enduring power cuts of more than 20 hours a day.

Amnesty International said the crippling of the power station amounted to "collective punishment of Palestinians". The strike on the plant will worsen already severe problems with Gaza's water supply, sewage treatment and power supplies to medical facilities.

"We need at least one year to repair the power plant, the turbines, the fuel tanks and the control room," said Fathi Sheik Khalil of the Gaza energy authority. "Everything was burned." He said crew members who had been trapped by the fire for several hours were evacuated.

Gaza City officials said damage to the power station could paralyse pumps, and urged residents to ration water.
Oh crap.

Can Gaza get power from anywhere else?

trashbat

6,005 posts

152 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
andymadmak said:
Oh crap.

Can Gaza get power from anywhere else?
In 2008: http://electronicintifada.net/content/how-gaza-get...

article said:
GAZA (IRIN) - Gaza’s sole power station supplies about 30 percent of Gaza’s electricity; 10 lines from Israel supply about 62 percent; and two lines from Egypt about eight percent.
I wouldn't hold out much hope for power from Israel right now. I don't know at what point you class what they're doing as an attempt at the complete destruction of Gaza.

TwigtheWonderkid

43,246 posts

149 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
jonby said:
The other thing many don't understand is that because of the whole unique nature of the race/religion arguments about Judaism, there are literally millions of people who feel very strongly about their judaism but don't believe in God
People do understand that because it's much the same in the UK. People are culturally C of E, in the way many across the world are culturally Jewish.

Many people are determined to marry in church, have their kids christened, have funerals of their loved ones in church, without having given god a moments thought during the gaps in between.

God gets more attention when England are about to take part in a penalty shoot out that he gets the rest of the year put together. Maybe if we won a few he might attract more genuine followers!

jonby

5,357 posts

156 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
trashbat said:
andymadmak said:
Oh crap.

Can Gaza get power from anywhere else?
In 2008: http://electronicintifada.net/content/how-gaza-get...

article said:
GAZA (IRIN) - Gaza’s sole power station supplies about 30 percent of Gaza’s electricity; 10 lines from Israel supply about 62 percent; and two lines from Egypt about eight percent.
I wouldn't hold out much hope for power from Israel right now. I don't know at what point you class what they're doing as an attempt at the complete destruction of Gaza.
you do realise that last week Gaza hit a power plant in Israel that supplies Gaza, which the Israelis then repaired to continue to supply Gaza with free electricity ? (Gaza owe about $400 million dollars to the Israeli electricity companies)

some of example of many articles confirming it - the first I happened to find
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/For...
http://pamelageller.com/2014/07/hamas-continues-ki...


I have no doubt they have hit the power plant in Gaza to control and show military supremacy (I share no glory in that statement but I have to assume that's the motivation) but they will continue to supply power, medical aid, telecommunications & more to Gaza. I don't say that in way that's meant to elicit praise for Israel, nor with any other motivation. I make my comments as a matter of factual statement - they can be used differently by those on both sides of the argument (I recognise not everyone takes sides in this of course)

Pappa Lurve

3,827 posts

281 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Jimbeaux said:
andymadmak said:
Gandahar said:
Very good points.

You've written a lot, very well, but you have only outlined the problems and what is wrong. Anyone can do that, politicians have to try and make it better

So, what is your solution that will work?
My solution?

Well, for a start we need to get the USA, the Russians, the EU and the Chinese in a room to agree unequivocally that they will do what it takes to reign the various factions in. That means the real threat of large scale sanctions/action against any party that steps out of line in the region. And I do mean ANY party.

Next I would tell Israel it had to go back to the 67 borders. Areas like the Golan Heights would not be returned to the states from whence they came, but instead would be held by the UN as a form of buffer zone. In return Israel would be given cast iron assurances as to its security within those borders from all the neighboring states, and enforced by threat of harsh repurcussions from all the USA, Russians, EU and Chinese.
In return for going back to the 67 borders Israel would not have to accept the return of displaced Arabs.

Then resources should be put into creating a viable Palestinian state from the WB and Gaza, with a UN protected corridor linking the two.

Then I would begin a large scale program of youth integration in neutral locations around the world. Young Israelis and Palestinians would be forced to spend time together for a period so that they could begin to learn to accept each other as human beings. I have given up on educating the older guys, but the future is the youth and enlightenment should help to anchor the peace in the long term. It would be a bit like national service..no opt outs, the kids would HAVE to do it.

Jerusalem would be made an international city

Any acts of terror,by any group on any side would be investigated by independant international observers and those responsible would be tried in an international court.


All the above is probably crap, but perhaps some of it might be in the right direction? One thing is for sure, it would be financially expensive, but if it helped to secure long term peace in the Middle East it would represent the bargain of the millenium for humanity as a whole
I like this Andy.
Virtually exactly this was looked at years ago. I recall a number of issues in what is otherwise a decent approach. One is that, and I have to say I agree with this, Israel would not accept assurances from anyone to protect its security, UN or anyone else. I can't imagine the UK agreeing to contract out its security (g4s not withstanding obviously :-P).

Jerusalem is actually now a multi government city in many ways. However, no-one agreed with the international option. Christians, Jews and Muslims all want access understandably. I have yet to meet many Jews or Muslims who think having it in the haNDS OF AN INTERNATIONAL BODY IS A GOOD IDEA BECAUSE ACCESS COULD BE BLOCKED AS HISTORY SHOWS US.hAVING SAID THAT, as I recall, while it is a very poor plan, it is a shed load better as a starting point at least and was, IIRC, not a million miles from the basics that were meant to be the groundwork for the Oslo accords.

As ever, another sad day there today but as Israel pointed out yet again, if they really just wanted to level the place simply, they would have bombed it to the ground years ago. And as the Arab League has repeated, the Egyptian blockade remains in place and they see no reason to recommend it being dropped, look what happened when it was. Been tragic for years but every so often the media notices again but neither side frankly are too worried about media opinions, stakes are far higher than that, hence the media yelling at one side or another will continue to make sod all difference.

Sorry for capital, hit the lock key and frankly, could be bothered to re-enter it all!

allnighter

6,663 posts

221 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
allnighter said:
ypical Mrr T's response, provide links bla bla bla, ignoring the thrust of my argument and applying selective quoting to distort what's conveyed. Did you fully understand what is conveyed or do you select part of what I said and try to twist it to your suitability?
Since I did not ask for any links....
Mrr T said:
Perhaps to help my understanding of the parallels you can provide links to
a) The extermination camps in Isreal?
b) The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto lobbing missiles at Germans civilians?

Edited by Mrr T on Tuesday 29th July 13:42
No idea why your memory is playing tricks on you? How old are you? Strike that, don't need to know, and by selective quoting I meant you conveniently missing the conclusion to my paragraph which sums up the thrust of my reasoning:
allnighter said:
Israel should make it a 1st amendment never to replicate atrocities committed in the past like the Warsaw ghetto uprising subsequent collective punishment by Nazis in honour for all the Jews who met their deaths. It's shameful that its actions ignore that historical stain on our so-called civilised and compassionate conduct towards each other.That stain is now consigned to history books and belligerence is the order of the day regretfully.


It's madness
When you missed the above paragraph 'accidentally on purpose' when quoting me, you betrayed your select bias TBH. I should have expected that from you. Did you feel a bit 'uncomfortable' or perhaps you agreed with what I wrote but did not feel the need to share it in public? I do not know, and I don't care TBH. Only you know.

Mrr T said:
allnighter said:
We are fully aware of the half a million Jews killed, Google can provide those statistics.So stop being daft and obtuse and see the similarities between confining Jews to a ghetto, just like Palestinians were confined to an open prison called Gaza, treating Jews like scum, just like Palestinians are treated like scum, Jews smuggling arms, just like Palestinians are doing the same, Jews building tunnels, just like Palestinians are doing in Gaza, Jews mounting an armed resistance against a well armed German army , just like Palestinian Hamas operatives are doing at the moment against a far superior military, Navy, and Air force.

Now you do understand the concept of 'resistance' don't you?Like shooting your enemy down, lobbing missiles, creating terror, sabotage, destruction etc...
When you are surrounded by a superior and an overwhelming force, resistance can take all sorts of shapes and forms.

The main point you missed, either deliberately or unintentionally, and I suspect it's the former TBH, is that from a humanitarian point of you (and I could be wasting my time discussing this with you anyway) is that Israel, a democratic state, should hold better values and ethics knowing the history of Jews and how they were persecuted and were mistreated by the Germans. They should never replicate tactics like the ones I listed above, blockading nearly 2 Million people, provoking an uprising, creating terrible conditions for Palestinians to result to desperate measures like joining radicals and taking up arms, and bombing the cr@ap out of them like Palestinian lives are worthless, and trying to legitimise it by claiming self-defence in the interest of national security, just like the Germans were doing with their lies and propaganda against Jews. Israel should know better its values and morals, and not trample over them and forget the fate of 6 millions who died a horrible death. You want to quantify and compare statistics to support your twisted agenda and justify the current campaign of state sponsored terrorism, I do not! Statistics like that mean fk all if the leaders of a nation of a previously persecuted race are indulging in persectuing another race employing more or less the same tactics (as listed above) and "fine-tuning" these tactics in line (or just above) with what is "acceptable" to Western media and Israel's backers.

Now go and stick your fingers in your ears and shout lalala, regurgitate the same cr@ap and nonesense to support your pro-Israel bias and pretend nobody is disagreeing with you.
So if I can summarise my understanding of your argument.

You argue:
1. Israel made the population of Gaza live in a ghetto and therefore they have a right to fight against Israel.
2. This is similar to the situation of Jews in the Warsaw ghetto when they took up arms against the Germans.
3 Therefore the Israeli are similar to the Germans.

I will not argue against the first point. I may not completely agree but but we are all entitled to our opinions.

The problem I have is with your second argument. The Germans has started to move Polish Jews into Warsaw from 1940.

Just before the deportation of 250,000 to 300,000 in 1942 the Germans assured the leaders of the Jews in Warsaw that deportations where to resettlements in the East. The leaders resistance in Warsaw voted not to resist the deportation so long as they where only moved to labour camps.

The uprising only started in Mid 1943 when it was clear to the resistance leaders leaders that the deportations where to death camps and the deportations started again.

I would argue the uprising in Warsaw was about the deportation of Jews to death camps not about living in a ghetto.

As for moral authority I ask, as other have, what should Israel do about the missiles?
Again, you keep missing what people tell you namely:

1. When people are confined and controlled by another state, rebellion is the only outcome.
2. When people are treated like scum and humiliated by another state, rebellion is the only outcome.
3.When living conditions are bad year in year out as a result of a blockade by another country, rebellion is the only outcome.
4. When you are bombed from three fronts every few years if you are a Gazan, or being deported to gas chambers if you are a Jew, rebellion is the only outcome.
5.When you create all of the above conditions, expect people to dig up tunnels, smuggle weapons and take up arms, and want to hurt you by any means necessary, and that my friend is called resistance.
6. Resistance by Jews in Warsaw was no different nor more 'honourable' than resistance by Palestinians who decided to fight or avenge the death of their loved ones.
7. The collective punishment meted out to unarmed Palestinian civilians like babies, toddlers, young boys and girls, mums and dads and grandparents is no different to collective punishment meted to thousands of unarmed Jews at the end of the battle of the Warsaw uprising.

Your attempt to side lining the above in favour of a futile detail like (the uprising was about deportation not the ghetto itself) shows you are deliberately trying to avoid acknowledging that maybe you are wrong in your understanding of what people are telling you. Now I can see why Mr Snap gets frustrated with you.

I know you love links so I can only oblige: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/holocaust/peopleevent... Living conditions in the ghetto weren't exactly ideal.

As for your " What can Israel do about the 'missiles'?" I refer you to the 7 points listed above. Israel makes choices, and has to live with the consequences of those choices. The ball is in its court at the end of the day. All I know is the military solution never works, and will never work. Soon or late diplomacy will have to be utilised to get out this vicious circle of violence and innocent deaths.






Edited by allnighter on Wednesday 30th July 01:23

audidoody

8,595 posts

255 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
So how come Hamas isn't firing rockets at the other country that is blockading them and confining them to a 'prison'. Egypt.

allnighter

6,663 posts

221 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
jonby said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
OK, I'll do my best - I'm not going to pretend I have a perfect answer - I'm not so much trying to avoid answering the question as I am admitting the situation is complicated and I don't have fully resolved answers in my own head

I think that the Israeli authorities would relinquish WB in it's entirety if they could be satisfied it would achieve genuine long term peace. I think they have done themselves no favours in taking the attitude they have towards settlements and at times have acted disingenuously. I think they are less inclined towards such a solution now than they once were but I still think they would do it, one imagines realistically along the lines proposed at summits previously involving land swaps. At the heart of the issue, I don't believe the exact location of borders would be the final sticking point but if it were, I find it far more likely that Jerusalem would be the problem. Is that most accurately phrased as 'long term willingness ' - no, but as I say, I think given the right circumstances, they would do it. If nothing else, I also think in the slightly ridiculous scenario that everything else was agreed and the Israeli public had a say in it, the pressure would be too overwhelming to accept for the govt not to go ahead, but as I say that;s arguably too hypothetical and is not a direct answer to your question. Call all that ducking an answer if you wish - I'm giving you my viewpoint

On the issue of Fatah/Hamas, I have clearer thoughts and I think I've made them in a previous post. I don't think it was ever previously conceivable that Israel would enter into a 'multi stage border solution' for want of a better phrase, which makes your question void. In relative terms, I guess it's potentially more likely that such an approach might be considered now, but I still see it as highly unlikely. If it was, then yes, Hamas would not be part of such an equation. The reason I find it unlikely is that Israel's whole approach is based on not believing that whatever they offer will ever be enough. Therefore at the very least, they will want certainty on all border issues before agreeing to a long term solution on any borders. Whether you think that's right or wrong (I sympathise with both viewpoints) I do believe thats at the heart of Israel's thought process
I was an advocate of giving Fatah a chance, show goodwill to the WB area, improve conditions and gradually make Hamas redundant in Gaza, and subsequently witness their demise at the ballot box.

But then I thought about the control Hamas has on the population and its powerful propaganda machine, and as a result doubts started creeping in about the feasibilty of such a plan ( using Fatah to destroy Hamas).

This could actually make matters worse for Fatah because Hamas won't take to being sidelined very nicely nor will Gazans in general who will view Fatah as the cheat who 'slept' with the enemy so to speak, then follows a whole propaganda war which will make Fatah look like the true betrayer of the Palestinian cause who turned their back on the people of Gaza, ripped up the Unity government deal, and sided with the enemy. This could become the fatal bullet which will finish Fatah for good and give Hamas more strength. So we're back to square one then! A deal will have to involve Hamas whether we like it or not.

raftom

1,196 posts

260 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
andymadmak said:
My solution?

Well, for a start we need to get the USA, the Russians, the EU and the Chinese in a room to agree unequivocally that they will do what it takes to reign the various factions in.
Tension in the Middle East means higher oil prices, so you can count the Russians out.

andymadmak said:
Then resources should be put into creating a viable Palestinian state from the WB and Gaza, with a UN protected corridor linking the two.

Then I would begin a large scale program of youth integration in neutral locations around the world. Young Israelis and Palestinians would be forced to spend time together for a period so that they could begin to learn to accept each other as human beings. I have given up on educating the older guys, but the future is the youth and enlightenment should help to anchor the peace in the long term. It would be a bit like national service..no opt outs, the kids would HAVE to do it.

Jerusalem would be made an international city

Any acts of terror,by any group on any side would be investigated by independant international observers and those responsible would be tried in an international court.
All of this is nice and fluffy, but easy to sabotage by a small group of determined extremists. The problem, as we saw by the death of the 3 israeli kids, is that is much easier to start a fire then to put it down.

allnighter

6,663 posts

221 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
audidoody said:
So how come Hamas isn't firing rockets at the other country that is blockading them and confining them to a 'prison'. Egypt.
Egypt is not the occupier of Palestinian territories. Israel is.
Egypt's military dictatorship has to be by virtue Israel's b!tch if it wants to guarantee receiving the $70 billion in aid from the United States.