Discussion
RedTrident said:
Unless the blockade is lifted and the concentration camp ends there will be no peace here. Israel must be forced by the US to genuinely build a 2 state solution. Left to its own devices it would want to avoid this and distract the negotiations with a dozen other issues instead of dealing with the root cause.
Changing tact now will help re establish Israel's reputation, try to carry on as is will ultimately one day lead to their leaders standing trial in the Hague.
Listening to the Israeli diplomat on LBC this morning, he was quite clear on specifics when it comes to what to do about hamas, and what the international world thinks of hamas, but was very vague when it came to the question about how Israel's PR is in the world right now. They might say they don't care, but I think the 'hearts and minds' campaign is important to them, and the younger generation who rely on facebook/twitter for their news updates won't see this conflict in the light of historical events - just what they read about and the pictures/videos their friends forwarded them. I suspect this is part of the reason why the truce was agreed - and Israel realise that neither side can hide from social media.Changing tact now will help re establish Israel's reputation, try to carry on as is will ultimately one day lead to their leaders standing trial in the Hague.
Funkycoldribena said:
JensenA said:
I take it you don't watch the news on TV then? You haven't seen the footage of fathers rushing into the hospitals carrying their wounded children in thir arms?
See you're not getting it,your gullibility doesnt let you see clearly.10% of rockets fired by hamas are landing in Gaza,do you think Hamas would admit to killing their own? Im not saying there arent civilians being killed but I guarantee you're not getting a true breakdown of figures because hamas control what is released.What percentage are hamas fighters? What percentage are killed by hamas' own rockets? What percentage are sacrificed by hamas like the guy in the earlier link who was chained to a fence?Theres been numerous instances over the years of outrage like yours at certain "atrocities" which have turned out to be absolute fabrications.I probably shouldnt post it again but open your eyes...
http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-10-most-disturbing-pal...
Edited by allnighter on Friday 1st August 09:05
Welshbeef said:
skyrover said:
Well... there's a 72 hour truce now underway... lets see how this one plays out.
Sky news reporting that Osraeli tanks have opened fire killing 3 Palestinian civilians so didn't last long at all. So a ceasefire is declared, people go into the streets, and then they get shelled again?
RedTrident said:
Unless the blockade is lifted and the concentration camp ends there will be no peace here. Israel must be forced by the US to genuinely build a 2 state solution. Left to its own devices it would want to avoid this and distract the negotiations with a dozen other issues instead of dealing with the root cause.
Changing tact now will help re establish Israel's reputation, try to carry on as is will ultimately one day lead to their leaders standing trial in the Hague.
Just remind me what the Palestinians did when Israel pulled out of gaza ? Kicked out the settlers ,and left it to the Palestinians ? Changing tact now will help re establish Israel's reputation, try to carry on as is will ultimately one day lead to their leaders standing trial in the Hague.
franki68 said:
RedTrident said:
Unless the blockade is lifted and the concentration camp ends there will be no peace here. Israel must be forced by the US to genuinely build a 2 state solution. Left to its own devices it would want to avoid this and distract the negotiations with a dozen other issues instead of dealing with the root cause.
Changing tact now will help re establish Israel's reputation, try to carry on as is will ultimately one day lead to their leaders standing trial in the Hague.
Just remind me what the Palestinians did when Israel pulled out of gaza ? Kicked out the settlers ,and left it to the Palestinians ? Changing tact now will help re establish Israel's reputation, try to carry on as is will ultimately one day lead to their leaders standing trial in the Hague.
Looks like the land grab has started already.
s1962a said:
Welshbeef said:
skyrover said:
Well... there's a 72 hour truce now underway... lets see how this one plays out.
Sky news reporting that Osraeli tanks have opened fire killing 3 Palestinian civilians so didn't last long at all. So a ceasefire is declared, people go into the streets, and then they get shelled again?
read it twice, and it's basically got no detail whatsoever?
best I can get from it is this:
"Palestinian officials say Israeli tanks have opened fire in Gaza, killing four people in a breach of the three-day ceasefire."
so, we have no idea where, what at, who the 4 people were etc etc.
the lack of real press reports is just staggering considering how many must be on the ground?
s1962a said:
Welshbeef said:
skyrover said:
Well... there's a 72 hour truce now underway... lets see how this one plays out.
Sky news reporting that Osraeli tanks have opened fire killing 3 Palestinian civilians so didn't last long at all. So a ceasefire is declared, people go into the streets, and then they get shelled again?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/28596609
Scuffers said:
s1962a said:
Welshbeef said:
skyrover said:
Well... there's a 72 hour truce now underway... lets see how this one plays out.
Sky news reporting that Osraeli tanks have opened fire killing 3 Palestinian civilians so didn't last long at all. So a ceasefire is declared, people go into the streets, and then they get shelled again?
read it twice, and it's basically got no detail whatsoever?
best I can get from it is this:
"Palestinian officials say Israeli tanks have opened fire in Gaza, killing four people in a breach of the three-day ceasefire."
so, we have no idea where, what at, who the 4 people were etc etc.
the lack of real press reports is just staggering considering how many must be on the ground?
UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay said:
both sides are violating the rules of war.
She said Hamas had done so by "locating rockets within schools and hospitals, or even launching these rockets from densely populated areas", while Israel had attacked civilian areas of Gaza such as schools, hospitals, homes and UN facilities.
She said Hamas had done so by "locating rockets within schools and hospitals, or even launching these rockets from densely populated areas", while Israel had attacked civilian areas of Gaza such as schools, hospitals, homes and UN facilities.
RedTrident said:
Unless the blockade is lifted and the concentration camp ends there will be no peace here. Israel must be forced by the US to genuinely build a 2 state solution. Left to its own devices it would want to avoid this and distract the negotiations with a dozen other issues instead of dealing with the root cause.
Changing tact now will help re establish Israel's reputation, try to carry on as is will ultimately one day lead to their leaders standing trial in the Hague.
How about Hamas lobbing missiles into Israel. Should they stop or can they continue?Changing tact now will help re establish Israel's reputation, try to carry on as is will ultimately one day lead to their leaders standing trial in the Hague.
As for opening border crossing that's been mentioned on here several times. It sounds a good idea but there are some operational issues.
If we ignore the crossing into Egypt and look only at those with Israel. To have a viable crossing you have 2 issues to deal with.
1. Security for those operating the crossing. Opening any crossing can only work if Hamas are committed to stopping suicide bombers from walking up to the Israeli border and blowing up as many crossing guards as possible.
2. Even if the security issue for the border guards is over come a border crossing where Israel has to search every inch of every person and vehicle trying to cross is of no benefit since the flow of traffic would be minimal. For a border crossing to make any difference Hamas must commit not to try to smuggle weapons or explosives into Israel.
Hamas says it wants the borders reopens but has made no suggestion it will cooperate with Israel to ensure the crossing are not used to attack Israeli's.
Mrr T said:
How about Hamas lobbing missiles into Israel. Should they stop or can they continue?
As for opening border crossing that's been mentioned on here several times. It sounds a good idea but there are some operational issues.
If we ignore the crossing into Egypt and look only at those with Israel. To have a viable crossing you have 2 issues to deal with.
1. Security for those operating the crossing. Opening any crossing can only work if Hamas are committed to stopping suicide bombers from walking up to the Israeli border and blowing up as many crossing guards as possible.
2. Even if the security issue for the border guards is over come a border crossing where Israel has to search every inch of every person and vehicle trying to cross is of no benefit since the flow of traffic would be minimal. For a border crossing to make any difference Hamas must commit not to try to smuggle weapons or explosives into Israel.
Hamas says it wants the borders reopens but has made no suggestion it will cooperate with Israel to ensure the crossing are not used to attack Israeli's.
Hamas has suggested both land and sea borders are opened and secured by a UN delegation, which is pretty commonsensical IMO.As for opening border crossing that's been mentioned on here several times. It sounds a good idea but there are some operational issues.
If we ignore the crossing into Egypt and look only at those with Israel. To have a viable crossing you have 2 issues to deal with.
1. Security for those operating the crossing. Opening any crossing can only work if Hamas are committed to stopping suicide bombers from walking up to the Israeli border and blowing up as many crossing guards as possible.
2. Even if the security issue for the border guards is over come a border crossing where Israel has to search every inch of every person and vehicle trying to cross is of no benefit since the flow of traffic would be minimal. For a border crossing to make any difference Hamas must commit not to try to smuggle weapons or explosives into Israel.
Hamas says it wants the borders reopens but has made no suggestion it will cooperate with Israel to ensure the crossing are not used to attack Israeli's.
Art0ir said:
Mrr T said:
How about Hamas lobbing missiles into Israel. Should they stop or can they continue?
As for opening border crossing that's been mentioned on here several times. It sounds a good idea but there are some operational issues.
If we ignore the crossing into Egypt and look only at those with Israel. To have a viable crossing you have 2 issues to deal with.
1. Security for those operating the crossing. Opening any crossing can only work if Hamas are committed to stopping suicide bombers from walking up to the Israeli border and blowing up as many crossing guards as possible.
2. Even if the security issue for the border guards is over come a border crossing where Israel has to search every inch of every person and vehicle trying to cross is of no benefit since the flow of traffic would be minimal. For a border crossing to make any difference Hamas must commit not to try to smuggle weapons or explosives into Israel.
Hamas says it wants the borders reopens but has made no suggestion it will cooperate with Israel to ensure the crossing are not used to attack Israeli's.
Hamas has suggested both land and sea borders are opened and secured by a UN delegation, which is pretty commonsensical IMO.As for opening border crossing that's been mentioned on here several times. It sounds a good idea but there are some operational issues.
If we ignore the crossing into Egypt and look only at those with Israel. To have a viable crossing you have 2 issues to deal with.
1. Security for those operating the crossing. Opening any crossing can only work if Hamas are committed to stopping suicide bombers from walking up to the Israeli border and blowing up as many crossing guards as possible.
2. Even if the security issue for the border guards is over come a border crossing where Israel has to search every inch of every person and vehicle trying to cross is of no benefit since the flow of traffic would be minimal. For a border crossing to make any difference Hamas must commit not to try to smuggle weapons or explosives into Israel.
Hamas says it wants the borders reopens but has made no suggestion it will cooperate with Israel to ensure the crossing are not used to attack Israeli's.
With regard to the border crossing into Israel no UN country (which could do the job properly) would be prepared to commit troops to contorting the border without the same commitments from Hamas.
You do realise the border was opened when Israel with drew from Gaza. Fata was prepared to ensure the security considerations where met. If was only when Hamas threw out Fata the borders closed.
Hamas would be happy with un control as per previous un controlled borders in the past as they let them do what they want
I used to holiday in an apartment block where un officers vacationed , they were very open , they said the Israelis hated them because they allowed the Palestinians to smuggle arms into Israel , they allowed Israel to be attacked from areas they were responsible for , part of the reason for the deep mistrust of the un by Israel.
I used to holiday in an apartment block where un officers vacationed , they were very open , they said the Israelis hated them because they allowed the Palestinians to smuggle arms into Israel , they allowed Israel to be attacked from areas they were responsible for , part of the reason for the deep mistrust of the un by Israel.
RedTrident said:
Unless the blockade is lifted and the concentration camp ends there will be no peace here. Israel must be forced by the US to genuinely build a 2 state solution. Left to its own devices it would want to avoid this and distract the negotiations with a dozen other issues instead of dealing with the root cause.
Changing tact now will help re establish Israel's reputation, try to carry on as is will ultimately one day lead to their leaders standing trial in the Hague.
And to arrive at and sustain a two state solution, Israel had better pray that Palestinians are in a forgiving mood or have short memories.Changing tact now will help re establish Israel's reputation, try to carry on as is will ultimately one day lead to their leaders standing trial in the Hague.
allnighter said:
Funkycoldribena said:
JensenA said:
I take it you don't watch the news on TV then? You haven't seen the footage of fathers rushing into the hospitals carrying their wounded children in thir arms?
See you're not getting it,your gullibility doesnt let you see clearly.10% of rockets fired by hamas are landing in Gaza,do you think Hamas would admit to killing their own? Im not saying there arent civilians being killed but I guarantee you're not getting a true breakdown of figures because hamas control what is released.What percentage are hamas fighters? What percentage are killed by hamas' own rockets? What percentage are sacrificed by hamas like the guy in the earlier link who was chained to a fence?Theres been numerous instances over the years of outrage like yours at certain "atrocities" which have turned out to be absolute fabrications.I probably shouldnt post it again but open your eyes...
http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-10-most-disturbing-pal...
Edited by allnighter on Friday 1st August 09:05
Its a bit like trying to convince these idiots that man really landed on the moon,no matter how much evidence you supply they dont want to know.
Funkycoldribena said:
JensenA said:
I take it you don't watch the news on TV then? You haven't seen the footage of fathers rushing into the hospitals carrying their wounded children in thir arms?
See you're not getting it,your gullibility doesnt let you see clearly.10% of rockets fired by hamas are landing in Gaza,do you think Hamas would admit to killing their own? Im not saying there arent civilians being killed but I guarantee you're not getting a true breakdown of figures because hamas control what is released.What percentage are hamas fighters? What percentage are killed by hamas' own rockets? What percentage are sacrificed by hamas like the guy in the earlier link who was chained to a fence?Theres been numerous instances over the years of outrage like yours at certain "atrocities" which have turned out to be absolute fabrications.I probably shouldnt post it again but open your eyes...
http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-10-most-disturbing-pal...
Funkycoldribena said:
allnighter said:
Funkycoldribena said:
JensenA said:
I take it you don't watch the news on TV then? You haven't seen the footage of fathers rushing into the hospitals carrying their wounded children in thir arms?
See you're not getting it,your gullibility doesnt let you see clearly.10% of rockets fired by hamas are landing in Gaza,do you think Hamas would admit to killing their own? Im not saying there arent civilians being killed but I guarantee you're not getting a true breakdown of figures because hamas control what is released.What percentage are hamas fighters? What percentage are killed by hamas' own rockets? What percentage are sacrificed by hamas like the guy in the earlier link who was chained to a fence?Theres been numerous instances over the years of outrage like yours at certain "atrocities" which have turned out to be absolute fabrications.I probably shouldnt post it again but open your eyes...
http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-10-most-disturbing-pal...
Edited by allnighter on Friday 1st August 09:05
Its a bit like trying to convince these idiots that man really landed on the moon,no matter how much evidence you supply they dont want to know.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff