Discussion
deadslow said:
supersingle said:
deadslow said:
supersingle said:
deadslow said:
Ah, that would explain why they murder 100 per day.
Is all killing murder? Even in war?Isreal can do no wrong. Are Gazan civilians even people? Probably not, these days.
It's fine if you do consider all killing to be murder. That's the position of many pacifists and one that I respect. If we all thought this way there could be no war.
Of course it only takes one person to go against the pacifist doctrine and reap the spoils and we're back to where we started. For what it's worth I don't believe that Israel is engaging in murder because it is engaged in a war of defence which targets military objectives. The civilian casualties are tragic but I doubt Israel deliberately targets civilians, if only because it would be so counterproductive to their aims.
Hamas, on the other hand, fires its rockets indiscriminately. Their own spokesmen admit that's a war crime because it doesn't distinguish between military and civilian targets.
Or are you saying that the IDF are deliberately targeting civilians? In which case I would agree, that would be criminal. There's no evidence that this is happening. What would Israel gain by doing so?
By the way, Israel makes much of its own weaponry, especially the high-tech stuff. That's what comes from having a population of educated, resourceful and productive citizens. A far cry from the rest of the middle east.
supersingle said:
deadslow said:
supersingle said:
deadslow said:
supersingle said:
deadslow said:
Ah, that would explain why they murder 100 per day.
Is all killing murder? Even in war?Isreal can do no wrong. Are Gazan civilians even people? Probably not, these days.
It's fine if you do consider all killing to be murder. That's the position of many pacifists and one that I respect. If we all thought this way there could be no war.
Of course it only takes one person to go against the pacifist doctrine and reap the spoils and we're back to where we started. For what it's worth I don't believe that Israel is engaging in murder because it is engaged in a war of defence which targets military objectives. The civilian casualties are tragic but I doubt Israel deliberately targets civilians, if only because it would be so counterproductive to their aims.
Hamas, on the other hand, fires its rockets indiscriminately. Their own spokesmen admit that's a war crime because it doesn't distinguish between military and civilian targets.
Or are you saying that the IDF are deliberately targeting civilians? In which case I would agree, that would be criminal. There's no evidence that this is happening. What would Israel gain by doing so?
By the way, Israel makes much of its own weaponry, especially the high-tech stuff. That's what comes from having a population of educated, resourceful and productive citizens. A far cry from the rest of the middle east.
Vile
Congratulations, you're bound to come out on top.
So is this an accurate sequence of what has taken place so far?
- a new Palestinian unity government is formed that seems prepared to negotiate a settlement with Israel.
- 3 Israeli lads are kidnapped and later killed.
- Israel immediately blames Hamas and starts to round up Hamas members and arrest them.
- Hamas retaliates with firing rockets (were there rocket firing immediately prior to this?).
- Israel launches an invasion of Gaza and the fighting escalates.
- Evidence emerges that the 3 Israeli lads were probably not abducted and killed by Hamas but rather a faction that was opposed to the unity government and the potential of a negotiated settlement.
- Israel continue to bomb Gaza and are forced to a truce after it emerges that they bombed a UN shelter with no warning killing women and children whilst they slept. The world is outraged.
- The truce lasts for only a few hours as it emerges that 3 Israeli soldiers were attacked, 2 killed and 1 maybe kidnapped.
- Israel responds by killing another 65 civilians, many children, when they bomb another Gaza neighbourhood. This neighbourhood is nowhere near the area of the suspected kidnapping.
- There is confusion over when the 3 Israeli soldiers were attacked, either before or during the ceasefire.
- Israel want the soldier returned before they talk again about a ceasefire.
A unity government must really scare Israel. Without a conflict to distract attention it forces them to the negotiating table. If they don't want to negotiate, it is in their interests to continue the conflict. I'm not sure what Hamas gain from fighting if they'd signed up to a unity government, but what do I know about the internal politics of a terrorist organisation?
The kidnapping of the soldier, regardless of whether it was before or during the ceasefire, is clearly a massive mistake by Hamas. Hopefully they hand him over to the UN. Although I doubt for one minute that the Hamas supporters that were wrongly accused and rounded up at the beginning of this tragedy have been released by Israel. Maybe someone can tell me what has happened to these people. But then it has been clear for some time that some human lives in this conflict are worth more than others.
Real shame that the ceasefire didn't hold long enough for people to sit round a table. I hope that no children are killed in their sleep tonight.
- a new Palestinian unity government is formed that seems prepared to negotiate a settlement with Israel.
- 3 Israeli lads are kidnapped and later killed.
- Israel immediately blames Hamas and starts to round up Hamas members and arrest them.
- Hamas retaliates with firing rockets (were there rocket firing immediately prior to this?).
- Israel launches an invasion of Gaza and the fighting escalates.
- Evidence emerges that the 3 Israeli lads were probably not abducted and killed by Hamas but rather a faction that was opposed to the unity government and the potential of a negotiated settlement.
- Israel continue to bomb Gaza and are forced to a truce after it emerges that they bombed a UN shelter with no warning killing women and children whilst they slept. The world is outraged.
- The truce lasts for only a few hours as it emerges that 3 Israeli soldiers were attacked, 2 killed and 1 maybe kidnapped.
- Israel responds by killing another 65 civilians, many children, when they bomb another Gaza neighbourhood. This neighbourhood is nowhere near the area of the suspected kidnapping.
- There is confusion over when the 3 Israeli soldiers were attacked, either before or during the ceasefire.
- Israel want the soldier returned before they talk again about a ceasefire.
A unity government must really scare Israel. Without a conflict to distract attention it forces them to the negotiating table. If they don't want to negotiate, it is in their interests to continue the conflict. I'm not sure what Hamas gain from fighting if they'd signed up to a unity government, but what do I know about the internal politics of a terrorist organisation?
The kidnapping of the soldier, regardless of whether it was before or during the ceasefire, is clearly a massive mistake by Hamas. Hopefully they hand him over to the UN. Although I doubt for one minute that the Hamas supporters that were wrongly accused and rounded up at the beginning of this tragedy have been released by Israel. Maybe someone can tell me what has happened to these people. But then it has been clear for some time that some human lives in this conflict are worth more than others.
Real shame that the ceasefire didn't hold long enough for people to sit round a table. I hope that no children are killed in their sleep tonight.
supersingle said:
It very well may be deliberate, but when schools and hospitals are used as weapon dumps and launching platforms they become military targets. Hamas using schools and hospitals for military purposes is certainly a war crime.
Or are you saying that the IDF are deliberately targeting civilians? In which case I would agree, that would be criminal. There's no evidence that this is happening. What would Israel gain by doing so?
By the way, Israel makes much of its own weaponry, especially the high-tech stuff. That's what comes from having a population of educated, resourceful and productive citizens. A far cry from the rest of the middle east.
christ, you are thickOr are you saying that the IDF are deliberately targeting civilians? In which case I would agree, that would be criminal. There's no evidence that this is happening. What would Israel gain by doing so?
By the way, Israel makes much of its own weaponry, especially the high-tech stuff. That's what comes from having a population of educated, resourceful and productive citizens. A far cry from the rest of the middle east.
open your eyes dumbass
peterpeter said:
supersingle said:
It very well may be deliberate, but when schools and hospitals are used as weapon dumps and launching platforms they become military targets. Hamas using schools and hospitals for military purposes is certainly a war crime.
Or are you saying that the IDF are deliberately targeting civilians? In which case I would agree, that would be criminal. There's no evidence that this is happening. What would Israel gain by doing so?
By the way, Israel makes much of its own weaponry, especially the high-tech stuff. That's what comes from having a population of educated, resourceful and productive citizens. A far cry from the rest of the middle east.
christ, you are thickOr are you saying that the IDF are deliberately targeting civilians? In which case I would agree, that would be criminal. There's no evidence that this is happening. What would Israel gain by doing so?
By the way, Israel makes much of its own weaponry, especially the high-tech stuff. That's what comes from having a population of educated, resourceful and productive citizens. A far cry from the rest of the middle east.
open your eyes dumbass
supersingle said:
peterpeter said:
supersingle said:
It very well may be deliberate, but when schools and hospitals are used as weapon dumps and launching platforms they become military targets. Hamas using schools and hospitals for military purposes is certainly a war crime.
Or are you saying that the IDF are deliberately targeting civilians? In which case I would agree, that would be criminal. There's no evidence that this is happening. What would Israel gain by doing so?
By the way, Israel makes much of its own weaponry, especially the high-tech stuff. That's what comes from having a population of educated, resourceful and productive citizens. A far cry from the rest of the middle east.
christ, you are thickOr are you saying that the IDF are deliberately targeting civilians? In which case I would agree, that would be criminal. There's no evidence that this is happening. What would Israel gain by doing so?
By the way, Israel makes much of its own weaponry, especially the high-tech stuff. That's what comes from having a population of educated, resourceful and productive citizens. A far cry from the rest of the middle east.
open your eyes dumbass
deadslow said:
supersingle said:
peterpeter said:
supersingle said:
It very well may be deliberate, but when schools and hospitals are used as weapon dumps and launching platforms they become military targets. Hamas using schools and hospitals for military purposes is certainly a war crime.
Or are you saying that the IDF are deliberately targeting civilians? In which case I would agree, that would be criminal. There's no evidence that this is happening. What would Israel gain by doing so?
By the way, Israel makes much of its own weaponry, especially the high-tech stuff. That's what comes from having a population of educated, resourceful and productive citizens. A far cry from the rest of the middle east.
christ, you are thickOr are you saying that the IDF are deliberately targeting civilians? In which case I would agree, that would be criminal. There's no evidence that this is happening. What would Israel gain by doing so?
By the way, Israel makes much of its own weaponry, especially the high-tech stuff. That's what comes from having a population of educated, resourceful and productive citizens. A far cry from the rest of the middle east.
open your eyes dumbass
RedTrident said:
supersingle said:
That's what comes from having a population of educated, resourceful and productive citizens. A far cry from the rest of the middle east.
Did they not kill their leader because he was going to negotiate a peace? Have you ever met one of these settlers?
RedTrident said:
supersingle said:
That's what comes from having a population of educated, resourceful and productive citizens. A far cry from the rest of the middle east.
Did they not kill their leader because he was going to negotiate a peace? Have you ever met one of these settlers?league67 said:
You should do refresher course. I'll help you out with the starting point as the previous one was obviously too taxing.
http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/5...
While you are at it, maybe you should research term 'friend'. IMHO you are confusing term friend with term 'set of pixels'.
Ok so are the citizens of Gaza “protected civilians”?http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/5...
While you are at it, maybe you should research term 'friend'. IMHO you are confusing term friend with term 'set of pixels'.
RedTrident said:
So is this an accurate sequence of what has taken place so far?
- a new Palestinian unity government is formed that seems prepared to negotiate a settlement with Israel.
- 3 Israeli lads are kidnapped and later killed.
- Israel immediately blames Hamas and starts to round up Hamas members and arrest them.
- Hamas retaliates with firing rockets (were there rocket firing immediately prior to this?).
- Israel launches an invasion of Gaza and the fighting escalates.
- Evidence emerges that the 3 Israeli lads were probably not abducted and killed by Hamas but rather a faction that was opposed to the unity government and the potential of a negotiated settlement.
- Israel continue to bomb Gaza and are forced to a truce after it emerges that they bombed a UN shelter with no warning killing women and children whilst they slept. The world is outraged.
- The truce lasts for only a few hours as it emerges that 3 Israeli soldiers were attacked, 2 killed and 1 maybe kidnapped.
- Israel responds by killing another 65 civilians, many children, when they bomb another Gaza neighbourhood. This neighbourhood is nowhere near the area of the suspected kidnapping.
- There is confusion over when the 3 Israeli soldiers were attacked, either before or during the ceasefire.
- Israel want the soldier returned before they talk again about a ceasefire.
A unity government must really scare Israel. Without a conflict to distract attention it forces them to the negotiating table. If they don't want to negotiate, it is in their interests to continue the conflict. I'm not sure what Hamas gain from fighting if they'd signed up to a unity government, but what do I know about the internal politics of a terrorist organisation?
The kidnapping of the soldier, regardless of whether it was before or during the ceasefire, is clearly a massive mistake by Hamas. Hopefully they hand him over to the UN. Although I doubt for one minute that the Hamas supporters that were wrongly accused and rounded up at the beginning of this tragedy have been released by Israel. Maybe someone can tell me what has happened to these people. But then it has been clear for some time that some human lives in this conflict are worth more than others.
Real shame that the ceasefire didn't hold long enough for people to sit round a table. I hope that no children are killed in their sleep tonight.
Pretty accurate . . .exceptIsrael did more than round up Hamas members and arrest them . . . . they arrested hundreds, and killed quite a few (and some stone throwing kids). Many had been arrested in the past and released under prisoner swaps, so their re-arrest looked like something Israel was awaiting a pretext for.- a new Palestinian unity government is formed that seems prepared to negotiate a settlement with Israel.
- 3 Israeli lads are kidnapped and later killed.
- Israel immediately blames Hamas and starts to round up Hamas members and arrest them.
- Hamas retaliates with firing rockets (were there rocket firing immediately prior to this?).
- Israel launches an invasion of Gaza and the fighting escalates.
- Evidence emerges that the 3 Israeli lads were probably not abducted and killed by Hamas but rather a faction that was opposed to the unity government and the potential of a negotiated settlement.
- Israel continue to bomb Gaza and are forced to a truce after it emerges that they bombed a UN shelter with no warning killing women and children whilst they slept. The world is outraged.
- The truce lasts for only a few hours as it emerges that 3 Israeli soldiers were attacked, 2 killed and 1 maybe kidnapped.
- Israel responds by killing another 65 civilians, many children, when they bomb another Gaza neighbourhood. This neighbourhood is nowhere near the area of the suspected kidnapping.
- There is confusion over when the 3 Israeli soldiers were attacked, either before or during the ceasefire.
- Israel want the soldier returned before they talk again about a ceasefire.
A unity government must really scare Israel. Without a conflict to distract attention it forces them to the negotiating table. If they don't want to negotiate, it is in their interests to continue the conflict. I'm not sure what Hamas gain from fighting if they'd signed up to a unity government, but what do I know about the internal politics of a terrorist organisation?
The kidnapping of the soldier, regardless of whether it was before or during the ceasefire, is clearly a massive mistake by Hamas. Hopefully they hand him over to the UN. Although I doubt for one minute that the Hamas supporters that were wrongly accused and rounded up at the beginning of this tragedy have been released by Israel. Maybe someone can tell me what has happened to these people. But then it has been clear for some time that some human lives in this conflict are worth more than others.
Real shame that the ceasefire didn't hold long enough for people to sit round a table. I hope that no children are killed in their sleep tonight.
Ergo seizing the Israeli soldier (if indeed they have) was not a mistake but the only way of securing the release of the hundreds of Palestinians arrested recently. Politically also it emphasises the strategic folly of Israel in picking this fight - it can inflict huge damage and kill hundreds or thousands but where's the exit strategy, what does 'victory' look like? ('Victory' for Hamas is just keeping going - and if they do, Israel will look weaker, despite the huge disparity in damage inflicted. Just as Israel did after its 2006 war with Hezbollah).
Also - Real shame that the ceasefire didn't hold long enough for people to sit round a table. That wasn't going to happen - Israel, fully supported by the US, were not going to talk to Hamas . . . if they'd been willing to do so years ago, about substantive issues, then none of this catastrophe need have happened.
Talk to the legitimate representatives of the Palestinian people? Heaven forbid . . .
it's an old one but it's as compelling today as it was then
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo
supersingle said:
deadslow said:
supersingle said:
deadslow said:
supersingle said:
deadslow said:
Ah, that would explain why they murder 100 per day.
Is all killing murder? Even in war?Isreal can do no wrong. Are Gazan civilians even people? Probably not, these days.
It's fine if you do consider all killing to be murder. That's the position of many pacifists and one that I respect. If we all thought this way there could be no war.
Of course it only takes one person to go against the pacifist doctrine and reap the spoils and we're back to where we started. For what it's worth I don't believe that Israel is engaging in murder because it is engaged in a war of defence which targets military objectives. The civilian casualties are tragic but I doubt Israel deliberately targets civilians, if only because it would be so counterproductive to their aims.
Hamas, on the other hand, fires its rockets indiscriminately. Their own spokesmen admit that's a war crime because it doesn't distinguish between military and civilian targets.
Or are you saying that the IDF are deliberately targeting civilians? In which case I would agree, that would be criminal. There's no evidence that this is happening. What would Israel gain by doing so?
By the way, Israel makes much of its own weaponry, especially the high-tech stuff. That's what comes from having a population of educated, resourceful and productive citizens. A far cry from the rest of the middle east.
There were no weapons at the schools or hospitals. No proof anyway, just hearsay. How are they not targeting civilians? Firing shells in a highly populated urban area... It's hardly avoiding collateral damage...
Why did we give them that country? F u hitler, still causing s
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