Discussion
Countdown said:
That's a weak answer, at best.
How many British settlements are there in Israel/Palestine? Or in Afghanistan? How many countries does the UK occupy with a view towards permanent annexation? How many people live under British military rule? How many children have the Britsh Army arrested or have been shot by British Army snipers?
good old britain ,we've done nothing wrong in the world,never fHow many British settlements are there in Israel/Palestine? Or in Afghanistan? How many countries does the UK occupy with a view towards permanent annexation? How many people live under British military rule? How many children have the Britsh Army arrested or have been shot by British Army snipers?
ked a country up royal and stolen all its wealth ,we are brilliant !!! three cheers for great britain and its glorious empires of the past.hip hip ,hooray.
franki68 said:
good old britain ,we've done nothing wrong in the world,never fked a country up royal and stolen all its wealth ,we are brilliant !!! three cheers for great britain and its glorious empires of the past.
hip hip ,hooray.
I agree with this and the answer to your previous question, no idea. And did you have to bring Moss Side into this!!!ked a country up royal and stolen all its wealth ,we are brilliant !!! three cheers for great britain and its glorious empires of the past.hip hip ,hooray.
And I should add condolences re your family
Edited by Alpinestars on Thursday 21st August 13:18
franki68 said:
good old britain ,we've done nothing wrong in the world,never fked a country up royal and stolen all its wealth ,we are brilliant !!! three cheers for great britain and its glorious empires of the past.
hip hip ,hooray.
Ah I see. The "Just because somebody did something tens or hundreds of years ago it's OK to do it now" defence.ked a country up royal and stolen all its wealth ,we are brilliant !!! three cheers for great britain and its glorious empires of the past.hip hip ,hooray.
franki68 said:
I have a fair idea about concentration camps one complete side of my family was wiped out in them ,
In that case you might be able to sympathise with the following;20 members of the same family killed
8 members of the same family killed
11 members of the same family killed
Countdown said:
Alpinestars said:
Scuffers said:
so, even the UN are a terrorist organisation now then?
this is just piss funny, where do you get this stuff from? there's enough material here for at least a couple of 'have I got news for you' episodes I reckon!
I didn't appreciate the UN owned land in Palestine to be able to give it away to migrants.this is just piss funny, where do you get this stuff from? there's enough material here for at least a couple of 'have I got news for you' episodes I reckon!
It's a bit pointless debating points now as people are so entrenched in their views, but I'll try yet again with some quotes from some Israeli leaders.
"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them?" Ben Gurion.
"They only see one thing: we came here and stole their country. Why should they accept that?" Ben Gurion.
"Politically we are the the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down" Ben Gurion.
Before [the Palestinians'] very eyes we are possessing their land and the villages where they, and their ancestors, have lived... We are the generation of colonisers, and without the steel helmet and the gun barrel we cannot plant a tree and build a home" Moshe Dayan.
"The Arabs will be our problem for a long time." "It's not going to be simple. On day the may have to leave and let us have the country. They're ten to one, but done we Jews have ten times their intelligence?" Chaim Weizmann.
"With compulsory transfer we (would) have a vast area (for settlement)... I support compulsory transfer. I don't see anything immoral in it" Benny Morris.
"It must be clear that there is no room for both peoples in this country... The Zionist enterprise so far.. has been fine and good in its own time, and could do with "land buying" - but this will not bring about the State of Israel: that must come all at once, in the manner of Salvation: and there is no way besides transferring the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries, to transfer them all; except maybe for Bethlehem, Nazareth, and Old Jerusalem, we must not leave a single village, not a single tribe. Edward Said.
"For the entire day of April 9, 1948, Irgun and LEHI soldiers carried out the slaughter in a cold and premeditated fashion... The attackers lined men, women and children against the walls and shot them... The ruthlessness of the attack on Deir Yassin shocked Jewish and wold opinion alike, drove fear and panic into the Arab population and led to the flight of unarmed civilians from their homes all over the country" Smiha Flapan.
Now tell me who the terrorist is. In the great words of a leading Israeli military leader, "one man's terrorism is another man's freedom fighter". I suspect if you asked a Palestinian and indeed many people who have served in the IDF, Israel terrorises the Palestinians on a day to day to day basis. se people.
Edited by Alpinestars on Thursday 21st August 12:39
To make things clear once and for all: The U.N. General Assembly endorsed UNSCOP’s in its Resolution 181. It is often claimed that this resolution “partitioned” Palestine, or that it provided Zionist leaders with a legal mandate for their subsequent declaration of the existence of the state of Israel, or some other similar variation on the theme. All such claims are absolutely FALSE.
Resolution 181 merely endorsed the U.N special commission on Palestine as a recommendation i.e nothing was set on stone till the Arab agreed, and seeing the Arabs did NOT agree to their land being given away to some foreign settlers and immigrants, and therefore did not sign on the dotted lines so to speak, it renders the recommendation and resolution 181 null and void anyway because just like a contract needs both parties' agreements and approval, the U.N had no authority to take land from one people and give it to another without their explicit consent.
The subsequent unilateral declaration of the state of Israel remains just that: Unilateral, illegal, unjust vis-a-vis the indigenous Arabs and has its roots and foundation in terror, intimidation, expulsion, and destruction as set out by the Dalet Plan.
allnighter said:
xactly, and add to that the bull$hit that's being taught in Israeli primary schools about the UN creating Israel which is repeated on here by many ignoramus contributors either out of pure revisionism or wilful ignorance.
To make things clear once and for all: The U.N. General Assembly endorsed UNSCOP’s in its Resolution 181. It is often claimed that this resolution “partitioned” Palestine, or that it provided Zionist leaders with a legal mandate for their subsequent declaration of the existence of the state of Israel, or some other similar variation on the theme. All such claims are absolutely FALSE.
Resolution 181 merely endorsed the U.N special commission on Palestine as a recommendation i.e nothing was set on stone till the Arab agreed, and seeing the Arabs did NOT agree to their land being given away to some foreign settlers and immigrants, and therefore did not sign on the dotted lines so to speak, it renders the recommendation and resolution 181 null and void anyway because just like a contract needs both parties' agreements and approval, the U.N had no authority to take land from one people and give it to another without their explicit consent.
The subsequent unilateral declaration of the state of Israel remains just that: Unilateral, illegal, unjust vis-a-vis the indigenous Arabs and has its roots and foundation in terror, intimidation, expulsion, and destruction as set out by the Dalet Plan.
Exactly. And until the pro Israelis appreciate the history of Israel, they may not appreciate the suffering and terror casued by Israel to Palestinians, and the natural reaction of those Palestinians. That terror continues on day to day basis.To make things clear once and for all: The U.N. General Assembly endorsed UNSCOP’s in its Resolution 181. It is often claimed that this resolution “partitioned” Palestine, or that it provided Zionist leaders with a legal mandate for their subsequent declaration of the existence of the state of Israel, or some other similar variation on the theme. All such claims are absolutely FALSE.
Resolution 181 merely endorsed the U.N special commission on Palestine as a recommendation i.e nothing was set on stone till the Arab agreed, and seeing the Arabs did NOT agree to their land being given away to some foreign settlers and immigrants, and therefore did not sign on the dotted lines so to speak, it renders the recommendation and resolution 181 null and void anyway because just like a contract needs both parties' agreements and approval, the U.N had no authority to take land from one people and give it to another without their explicit consent.
The subsequent unilateral declaration of the state of Israel remains just that: Unilateral, illegal, unjust vis-a-vis the indigenous Arabs and has its roots and foundation in terror, intimidation, expulsion, and destruction as set out by the Dalet Plan.
Reap what you sow. It is incredibly naive to think Israel is the victim.
Alpinestars said:
Exactly. And until the pro Israelis appreciate the history of Israel, they may not appreciate the suffering and terror casued by Israel to Palestinians, and the natural reaction of those Palestinians. That terror continues on day to day basis.
Reap what you sow. It is incredibly naive to think Israel is the victim.
seems to me you're the one in need of the history lessons.Reap what you sow. It is incredibly naive to think Israel is the victim.
Alpinestars said:
Exactly. And until the pro Israelis appreciate the history ...
This is why state propaganda is often so effective. Soundbites (with no real historical context) and imagery dominate. Everything happens in the now, and that now is often a false construct. It takes exceptional individuals to see around this.franki68 said:
I assume you know what concentration camps were,and that you've been to gaza? I have and cannot see any semblance to a concentration camp ,such language is specifically designed to inflame Jews ,and you know it if you have half a brain cell .
Inflame Jews? bks. I'm not going to change my opinion for fear of someone throwing that old prejudice in my direction. I'm comfortable with my understanding of a concentration camp. And no I haven't been to Gaza. Neither have I met a Nazi but I can still have an opinion on them.
Round them all up, stop them getting out and kill them. The gas chambers are replaced with bombs and the wire fences by the blockade.
franki68 said:
Ive done the 'arent we deprived ' gaza tour as undertaken by many activists,a bit like doing a tour of manchester and being taken to moss side alone ,and I've seen other parts of gaza the 'tourists' dont get to see.
I have a fair idea what I am talking about .
Right, Gaza is a bit like going to Moss Side. Got that and you complain with the comparison of Gaza with a concentration camp. I have a fair idea what I am talking about .
league67 said:
For you, there is no point in reading anything. British Army didn't go on rampage killing over 2000 people, most of them civilians, in little over a month. If they were terrorizing civilian population, just like both IDF and Hamas do, they would be terrorist organization as well. Flag or cause are irrelevant. Actions are what terrorists are judged on.
I understand why are you aligning your views and looking for proof from mentally ill person. I really do.
Personally I think there's a difference between a terrorist organisation and the IDF;I understand why are you aligning your views and looking for proof from mentally ill person. I really do.
Anyone have a match?
Scuffers said:
Alpinestars said:
Exactly. And until the pro Israelis appreciate the history of Israel, they may not appreciate the suffering and terror casued by Israel to Palestinians, and the natural reaction of those Palestinians. That terror continues on day to day basis.
Reap what you sow. It is incredibly naive to think Israel is the victim.
seems to me you're the one in need of the history lessons.Reap what you sow. It is incredibly naive to think Israel is the victim.
I'm quite willing to believe that not all of us here are great historians, but you're hardly Hannah Arendt.
allnighter said:
xactly, and add to that the bull$hit that's being taught in Israeli primary schools about the UN creating Israel which is repeated on here by many ignoramus contributors either out of pure revisionism or wilful ignorance.
To make things clear once and for all: The U.N. General Assembly endorsed UNSCOP’s in its Resolution 181. It is often claimed that this resolution “partitioned” Palestine, or that it provided Zionist leaders with a legal mandate for their subsequent declaration of the existence of the state of Israel, or some other similar variation on the theme. All such claims are absolutely FALSE.
Resolution 181 merely endorsed the U.N special commission on Palestine as a recommendation i.e nothing was set on stone till the Arab agreed, and seeing the Arabs did NOT agree to their land being given away to some foreign settlers and immigrants, and therefore did not sign on the dotted lines so to speak, it renders the recommendation and resolution 181 null and void anyway because just like a contract needs both parties' agreements and approval, the U.N had no authority to take land from one people and give it to another without their explicit consent.
The subsequent unilateral declaration of the state of Israel remains just that: Unilateral, illegal, unjust vis-a-vis the indigenous Arabs and has its roots and foundation in terror, intimidation, expulsion, and destruction as set out by the Dalet Plan.
Re your foreign settlers & immigrants you're forgetting that there were Israelites living in the Southern Levant since beyond the year dot.To make things clear once and for all: The U.N. General Assembly endorsed UNSCOP’s in its Resolution 181. It is often claimed that this resolution “partitioned” Palestine, or that it provided Zionist leaders with a legal mandate for their subsequent declaration of the existence of the state of Israel, or some other similar variation on the theme. All such claims are absolutely FALSE.
Resolution 181 merely endorsed the U.N special commission on Palestine as a recommendation i.e nothing was set on stone till the Arab agreed, and seeing the Arabs did NOT agree to their land being given away to some foreign settlers and immigrants, and therefore did not sign on the dotted lines so to speak, it renders the recommendation and resolution 181 null and void anyway because just like a contract needs both parties' agreements and approval, the U.N had no authority to take land from one people and give it to another without their explicit consent.
The subsequent unilateral declaration of the state of Israel remains just that: Unilateral, illegal, unjust vis-a-vis the indigenous Arabs and has its roots and foundation in terror, intimidation, expulsion, and destruction as set out by the Dalet Plan.
Transmitter Man said:
Re your foreign settlers & immigrants you're forgetting that there were Israelites living in the Southern Levant since beyond the year dot.
Think I might just go and kick the fkers out who are occupying the house I used to live in as a kid. I'm sure they'll be fine with it.league67 said:
For you, there is no point in reading anything. British Army didn't go on rampage killing over 2000 people, most of them civilians, in little over a month. If they were terrorizing civilian population, just like both IDF and Hamas do, they would be terrorist organization as well. Flag or cause are irrelevant. Actions are what terrorists are judged on.
I understand why are you aligning your views and looking for proof from mentally ill person. I really do.
I know I shouldn't try and debate with you - you are really too far gone. But, it's a slow day, so:I understand why are you aligning your views and looking for proof from mentally ill person. I really do.
1. The Israeli Army hasn't gone on any rampage. The Israeli Army has been involved in destroying tunnels and engaged in combat with armed militants. You will no doubt be delighted that more than 60 have been killed in the process. One tank is reported to have fired shells at a hospital in response to ground fire directed at them from that location.
2. The civilian deaths have been caused by drone, naval and air strikes against rocket launch sites after the civilians have been advised to leave the area (the IDF has radar that pinpoints the location of each launch)
3. By your definition Royal Air Force Bomber Command were an extreme terrorist organisation between 1940 and 1945 and the British Army is also a terrorist organisation following the events in 1972 of what came to be known as "Bloody Sunday".
Of course they aren't - and the IDF isn't,
Funnily enough I have missed your wisdom and insight on the ISIS Air Strikes thread where you do not appear to be expressing your normal hysteria about the deaths of hundreds of Muslim women and children. Or is it only when Jews inadvertently kill Muslim people who are located next to people who are dropping rockets on their heads that you blood pressure rises?
Insha'Allah
zuby84 said:
Your premise is what exactly? Killing innocents via a suicide vest is more "terrorist" than killing innocents via a remote control drone/air strike?
Premise is:Crude examples but you get the idea:
Targeted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6txl_Nd3oVc
Indiscriminate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha04HDHkNTY
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