Discussion
It's almost pointless presenting any evidence on this thread. Some people will never be convinced by any matter of videos, articles or comments. Either through an undying loyalty to Israel, hatred of Palestine, lack of intelligence, lack of emotional intelligence, inability to learn, or sheer bloody mindedness of having to be right/having the last word no matter what (you know who you are ahuv).
The wise know their weakness too well to assume infallibility, and he who knows most, knows best how little he knows.
The wise know their weakness too well to assume infallibility, and he who knows most, knows best how little he knows.
Alpinestars said:
It's almost pointless presenting any evidence on this thread. Some people will never be convinced by any matter of videos, articles or comments. Either through an undying loyalty to IsraelTerrorism, hatred of PalestineJews, lack of intelligence, lack of emotional intelligence, inability to learn, or sheer bloody mindedness of having to be right/having the last word no matter what (you know who you are ahuv).
The wise know their weakness too well to assume infallibility, and he who knows most, knows best how little he knows.
Fixed that for you! You are very welcome piyaara.The wise know their weakness too well to assume infallibility, and he who knows most, knows best how little he knows.
"A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right and evil doesn't become good, just because it is accepted by a majority."
Edited by Grumfutock on Thursday 28th August 09:16
RedTrident said:
What did you actually think of the video?
It is a video of police violence. Of course it isn't right. Is it isolated to Israel? No.It is entitle "If Israel could do this to a young American Jew, imagine what Palestinians face every day"
Here's your answer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KakxXN5Z-XI
Grumfutock said:
Not bluff, not bluster, not obfuscation. Just a desperate and final attempt to try to get you to read what I am writing!!!
We can all read what you are writing; its utter tosh! You discredit ANYTHING that is put forward and on every occasion divert a question with a question.How can anyone on this thread debate with you when you talk out of your arse using the IDF book of PR. Moron!
I amend my statement about you Habibi, you are not just ignorant but plain effing stupid too.
I hope this is your final attempt and then we'll have one less idiot who can't debate for shi7!
SR7492 said:
Grumfutock said:
Not bluff, not bluster, not obfuscation. Just a desperate and final attempt to try to get you to read what I am writing!!!
We can all read what you are writing; its utter tosh! You discredit ANYTHING that is put forward and on every occasion divert a question with a question.How can anyone on this thread debate with you when you talk out of your arse using the IDF book of PR. Moron!
I amend my statement about you Habibi, you are not just ignorant but plain effing stupid too.
I hope this is your final attempt and then we'll have one less idiot who can't debate for shi7!
Oh and can I just say tattay chooso!
s1962a said:
Very good to see and the way forward, however I note that even they cant agree on the wording and meaning! Grumfutock said:
It is a video of police violence. Of course it isn't right. Is it isolated to Israel? No.
You weren't asked if it was only isolated to Israel. The fact of the matter is that for every one non Palestinian caught on camera being treated unfairly; there are *likely* to be many many more Palestinians who have been done wrong by. Of course you will deny this because you haven't ever really been taught the concept of statistics.If this was to happen in Britain - there would be an inquiry - that is real democracy. None of this mumbo jumbo "Israeli democracy" where there is absolutely no/very little accountability for Israel running a totalitarian state.
So, my question still holds and please don't try and deflect by going off on tangent or answering a question with another question - do you accept having watched that video that there would be many Palestinians treated the same way/even more harshly by Israel for doing what that young boy did? (peacefully protesting)
Or do you only believe things happen if you can watch it with your own eyes on a high definition video?
zuby84 said:
You weren't asked if it was only isolated to Israel. The fact of the matter is that for every one non Palestinian caught on camera being treated unfairly; there are *likely* to be many many more Palestinians who have been done wrong by. Of course you will deny this because you haven't ever really been taught the concept of statistics.
If this was to happen in Britain - there would be an inquiry - that is real democracy. None of this mumbo jumbo "Israeli democracy" where there is absolutely no/very little accountability for Israel running a totalitarian state.
So, my question still holds and please don't try and deflect by going off on tangent or answering a question with another question - do you accept having watched that video that there would be many Palestinians treated the same way/even more harshly by Israel for doing what that young boy did? (peacefully protesting)
Or do you only believe things happen if you can watch it with your own eyes on a high definition video?
what rubbish If this was to happen in Britain - there would be an inquiry - that is real democracy. None of this mumbo jumbo "Israeli democracy" where there is absolutely no/very little accountability for Israel running a totalitarian state.
So, my question still holds and please don't try and deflect by going off on tangent or answering a question with another question - do you accept having watched that video that there would be many Palestinians treated the same way/even more harshly by Israel for doing what that young boy did? (peacefully protesting)
Or do you only believe things happen if you can watch it with your own eyes on a high definition video?
zuby84 said:
You weren't asked if it was only isolated to Israel. The fact of the matter is that for every one non Palestinian caught on camera being treated unfairly; there are *likely* to be many many more Palestinians who have been done wrong by. Of course you will deny this because you haven't ever really been taught the concept of statistics.
If this was to happen in Britain - there would be an inquiry - that is real democracy. None of this mumbo jumbo "Israeli democracy" where there is absolutely no/very little accountability for Israel running a totalitarian state.
So, my question still holds and please don't try and deflect by going off on tangent or answering a question with another question - do you accept having watched that video that there would be many Palestinians treated the same way/even more harshly by Israel for doing what that young boy did? (peacefully protesting)
Or do you only believe things happen if you can watch it with your own eyes on a high definition video?
Sorry but you didn't actually ask a question when you posted the link. I replied and you haven't answered that question!If this was to happen in Britain - there would be an inquiry - that is real democracy. None of this mumbo jumbo "Israeli democracy" where there is absolutely no/very little accountability for Israel running a totalitarian state.
So, my question still holds and please don't try and deflect by going off on tangent or answering a question with another question - do you accept having watched that video that there would be many Palestinians treated the same way/even more harshly by Israel for doing what that young boy did? (peacefully protesting)
Or do you only believe things happen if you can watch it with your own eyes on a high definition video?
I was ask what I thought of the video by Red Trident and I replied! Sorry if that is inconvenient for you but you do show an inability to read the posts.
If this happened in the UK you say? Hmmmm accountability you say? Ian Tomlinson?
Regarding your question above. Of course there would be similar treatment for Palestinians. Do you think Hamas treats the Palestinians better? Are you of the opinion an anti Hamas Palestinian demonstrator would be quietly asked to move along? Point of interest, Hamas have actually banned ANY demonstration or protests!
The point being you cant claim Israel are a brutal regime and ignore what Hamas are doing. BOTH are guilty of wrong, I just happen to believe that Hamas is the worst of the two evils.
Grumfutock said:
Sorry but you didn't actually ask a question when you posted the link. I replied and you haven't answered that question!
I was ask what I thought of the video by Red Trident and I replied! Sorry if that is inconvenient for you but you do show an inability to read the posts.
There is clearly a question mark at the end of my post where I posted the link. That normally implies there is a question in the post.I was ask what I thought of the video by Red Trident and I replied! Sorry if that is inconvenient for you but you do show an inability to read the posts.
Grumfutock said:
If this happened in the UK you say? Hmmmm accountability you say? Ian Tomlinson?
See my post re inquiry - This stuff happens all over the place, but there is accountability in some places more than others. (ie Britain more than Israel.) You clearly know how to read, but do you not know how to register what you read?Grumfutock said:
Regarding your question above. Of course there would be similar treatment for Palestinians. Do you think Hamas treats the Palestinians better? Are you of the opinion an anti Hamas Palestinian demonstrator would be quietly asked to move along? Point of interest, Hamas have actually banned ANY demonstration or protests!
No, I don't think Hamas will treat it's opponents any better, but Hamas don't pretend to be the only fair and open democracy in the Middle East and they don't enjoy widespread support for their crimes as much as Israel does. It is possible to condemn both Hamas and Israel you know. You seem to have this fixed notion in your head where you either LOVE Israel and HATE Hamas or LOVE Hamas and HATE Israel. Very simple way of thinking about things.Grumfutock said:
The point being you cant claim Israel are a brutal regime and ignore what Hamas are doing. BOTH are guilty of wrong.
You're right, both are guilty of wrong doing. After 300+ pages Grumfutock - you still don't understand that the underlying theme of the debate is that "Israel is just as bad/more worse than Hamas" - personally if I was the President of a "fair and open democracy" - I would not like my supporters to be attempting to justify my actions by comparing my actions to a terrorist organisation.The moment you start saying "yes, we do this, but Hamas/ISIS/LRA/Boko Haram do the same" - you've lost your argument.
Grumfutock said:
Hmmmm ever heard of Adel Abdel Bary I wonder? No? How about Khalid al-Fawwaz? Look them up. I wonder if you consider us terrorist state?
You mean because we have individual citizens who behave as terrorists or commit terrorist acts? Bari is awaiting trial for a couple of embassy bombings with large loss of life. He is said to be the father of "Jihad John" the rapper who beheaded James Foley.
Al-Fawwaz is a Saudi citizen who has been indicted for the same crimes.
Both are extremely likely -- I've not seen the evidence, neither have been tried -- to be terrorists by any definition.
I don't think this makes Britain a terrorist state. Neither claim or claimed to be acting on behalf of the UK or in UK interests, neither were or have held government posts to my knowledge, neither were trained or equipped by the UK.
This does not rule out the UK committing acts of terrorism on other occasions.
However (and you really don't have to be very quick or careful to find evidence) for Israeli and Zionist acts of terrorism. Let's cut to the chase: just a couple of examples:
In 1948 the Stern Gang assassinated Folke Bernadotte (UN peace mediator) and André Serot (UN official), probably mistaking the latter for Ralph Bunche, Bernadotte's aide and eventual successor. The planners were the Stern Gang leadership, Yitzhak Shamir, Nathan Friedmann and Yisrael Eldad. The principal assassin was Yehoshua Cohen.
Shamir became Prime Minister of Israel, Cohen his personal bodyguard. You couldn't make this up.
A state founded on terrorism rewarding terrorists.
Amos Yaron (known as Brigadier Amos) ordered the camps at Sabra and Shatila surrounded. On the orders of Sharon and Eitan, Israel's Phalangist allies were to be reponsible for "Searching and mopping up the camps" under the direction of the IDF, who would also provide star shells to light up the area.
Although it was clear that a massacre would ensue (and the IDF and Phalangists shared a command position overlooking the camps) and later did ensue, absolutely nothing was done to prevent it. Sharon was forced to resign, Yaron was withheld promotion within the IDF for 3 years and -- as I read it -- is still facing War Crimes charges.
One view of the episode is given in the Israeli film "Waltz with Bashir".
The sources are so numerous, so largely unequivocal, that here I won't bother quoting them.
For the charges against Yaron, though, see here and here.
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Thursday 28th August 12:33
Grumfutock said:
The point being you cant claim Israel are a brutal regime and ignore what Hamas are doing. BOTH are guilty of wrong, I just happen to believe that Hamas is the worst of the two evils.
I do not think anyone in the pro-Palestinian camp (and please take note: Pro-Palestinian does not equal pro-Hamas) would disagree with you. Yes Hamas is the worst of the two evils, and yes both are evils. zuby84 said:
You're right, both are guilty of wrong doing. After 300+ pages Grumfutock - you still don't understand that the underlying theme of the debate is that "Israel is just as bad/more worse than Hamas" - personally if I was the President of a "fair and open democracy" - I would not like my supporters to be attempting to justify my actions by comparing my actions to a terrorist organisation.
The moment you start saying "yes, we do this, but Hamas/ISIS/LRA/Boko Haram do the same" - you've lost your argument.
Ah and again the biased. you just couldn't say "Israel is just as bad as Hamas" could you? you had to add the "worse" on the end.The moment you start saying "yes, we do this, but Hamas/ISIS/LRA/Boko Haram do the same" - you've lost your argument.
So there was an inquiry to Ian Tomlinson. There was even a court case, but I fail to see how that was any better than what Israel do.
my "fixed notion" tends to come from 300 pages of Israel are terrorist and you are a Zionist! Kind of makes it simple when there has been a complete lack of the Pro Hamas lot even acknowledging that they do anything wrong.
But OK let us leave it there. You see it one way, I see it another. As I have said before both sides are bad, I just happen to see Hamas as worse.
allnighter said:
Grumfutock said:
The point being you cant claim Israel are a brutal regime and ignore what Hamas are doing. BOTH are guilty of wrong, I just happen to believe that Hamas is the worst of the two evils.
I do not think anyone in the pro-Palestinian camp (and please take note: Pro-Palestinian does not equal pro-Hamas) would disagree with you. Yes Hamas is the worst of the two evils, and yes both are evils. allnighter said:
Lost soul said:
zuby84 said:
Lost soul said:
what rubbish
How insightful.
t
tGrumfutock said:
Kind of makes it simple when there has been a complete lack of the Pro Hamas lot even acknowledging that they do anything wrong.
Yes you are right, and seeing I have personally followed this thread from the start, and I doubt you did the same, I have not seen a single intervention nor a single comment by a pro-Hamas person on here. I've yet to meet a pro-Hamas PHer on here!Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff