Discussion
Ben Caspit cumnist for Ma'ariv, quoted in the Guardian Thursday 28 August 2014
"The paradox is that most of what Netanyahu, Ya'alon and Gantz said yesterday was correct. Yes, Hamas did take a very bad blow. Yes, the IDF did have many achievements. Yes, Hamas had no achievement in this war. But yes, we too, in the meantime, have achieved nothing. It could have been expected that the State of Israel, with the IDF, the GSS [security service], the Mossad, the Air Force and the best intelligence in the world, could have defeated Hamas, or at least dictated the pace of events and the timetable. In reality, Hamas dictated them."
"The paradox is that most of what Netanyahu, Ya'alon and Gantz said yesterday was correct. Yes, Hamas did take a very bad blow. Yes, the IDF did have many achievements. Yes, Hamas had no achievement in this war. But yes, we too, in the meantime, have achieved nothing. It could have been expected that the State of Israel, with the IDF, the GSS [security service], the Mossad, the Air Force and the best intelligence in the world, could have defeated Hamas, or at least dictated the pace of events and the timetable. In reality, Hamas dictated them."
TheRealFingers99 said:
Ben Caspit cumnist for Ma'ariv, quoted in the Guardian Thursday 28 August 2014
"The paradox is that most of what Netanyahu, Ya'alon and Gantz said yesterday was correct. Yes, Hamas did take a very bad blow. Yes, the IDF did have many achievements. Yes, Hamas had no achievement in this war. But yes, we too, in the meantime, have achieved nothing. It could have been expected that the State of Israel, with the IDF, the GSS [security service], the Mossad, the Air Force and the best intelligence in the world, could have defeated Hamas, or at least dictated the pace of events and the timetable. In reality, Hamas dictated them."
I would agree with that to a point but I would also add that Hamas lost some of it's important leaders, used up a massive amount of it's hoarded missile reserve and lost a lot of it's tunnels, vital for resupply. In addition the supply routes themselves are now drying up as surrounding Arab states are busy with their own problems and allegiances move. So all in all Hamas is not really in any shape to repeat the war, where as the IDF could go again tomorrow."The paradox is that most of what Netanyahu, Ya'alon and Gantz said yesterday was correct. Yes, Hamas did take a very bad blow. Yes, the IDF did have many achievements. Yes, Hamas had no achievement in this war. But yes, we too, in the meantime, have achieved nothing. It could have been expected that the State of Israel, with the IDF, the GSS [security service], the Mossad, the Air Force and the best intelligence in the world, could have defeated Hamas, or at least dictated the pace of events and the timetable. In reality, Hamas dictated them."
ETA: No source for this, rather common sense and a rather good knowledge of how war works.
Edited by Grumfutock on Friday 29th August 16:17
Grumfutock said:
I would agree with that to a point but I would also add that Hamas lost some of it's important leaders, used up a massive amount of it's hoarded missile reserve and lost a lot of it's tunnels, vital for resupply. In addition the supply routes themselves are now drying up as surrounding Arab states are busy with their own problems and allegiances move. So all in all Hamas is not really in any shape to repeat the war, where as the IDF could go again tomorrow.
ETA: No source for this, rather common sense and a rather good knowledge of how war works.
On a strategic level, I think you're right. ETA: No source for this, rather common sense and a rather good knowledge of how war works.
Edited by Grumfutock on Friday 29th August 16:17
On a political level, Netanyahu pretty much lost the support of the hawks -- Ben Caspit is one -- and the doves.
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Friday 29th August 16:49
For a more balanced view (it almost pains me to say so!) see Jewish Post.
It's clear that Abbas is talking predominantly about settlements, military presence, etc. the rest is rhetoric. If a Jew wanted to settle in a future Palestinian state (and I gather there are still Jewish Syrians), I'd see it as a good thing.
I know a Jew bought up in a Kibbutz, now living in the UK, who has been a lifelong supporter of Palestine.
But I'd call a free Palestine without Jews "exclusion" and the current situation apartheid. The Israelis should know better -- they were apartheid South Africa's strongest supporters.
It's clear that Abbas is talking predominantly about settlements, military presence, etc. the rest is rhetoric. If a Jew wanted to settle in a future Palestinian state (and I gather there are still Jewish Syrians), I'd see it as a good thing.
I know a Jew bought up in a Kibbutz, now living in the UK, who has been a lifelong supporter of Palestine.
But I'd call a free Palestine without Jews "exclusion" and the current situation apartheid. The Israelis should know better -- they were apartheid South Africa's strongest supporters.
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Friday 29th August 16:46
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Friday 29th August 18:14
t.allnighter said:
Grumfutock said:
allnighter said:
I think most people understood the Sahara saying but as a favour to you if I ever use a metaphor in future I will include a footnote detailing everything as a special dispensation to you mate. No worries.
Thank you.
burwoodman said:
allnighter said:
Grumfutock said:
allnighter said:
I think most people understood the Sahara saying but as a favour to you if I ever use a metaphor in future I will include a footnote detailing everything as a special dispensation to you mate. No worries.
Thank you.
really? He's a clever bar-steward and there's me thinking he was gonna go threaders!allnighter said:
burwoodman said:
allnighter said:
Grumfutock said:
allnighter said:
I think most people understood the Sahara saying but as a favour to you if I ever use a metaphor in future I will include a footnote detailing everything as a special dispensation to you mate. No worries.
Thank you. really? He's a clever bar-steward and there's me thinking he was gonna go threaders!burwoodman said:
allnighter said:
burwoodman said:
allnighter said:
Grumfutock said:
allnighter said:
I think most people understood the Sahara saying but as a favour to you if I ever use a metaphor in future I will include a footnote detailing everything as a special dispensation to you mate. No worries.
Thank you. really? He's a clever bar-steward and there's me thinking he was gonna go threaders!
allnighter said:
burwoodman said:
allnighter said:
burwoodman said:
allnighter said:
Grumfutock said:
allnighter said:
I think most people understood the Sahara saying but as a favour to you if I ever use a metaphor in future I will include a footnote detailing everything as a special dispensation to you mate. No worries.
Thank you. really? He's a clever bar-steward and there's me thinking he was gonna go threaders!burwoodman said:
without being rude, I think it fair to say that whilst some of what you have to say is valid, you don't have the ability to debate at the level of Grump. You go off topic and waffle a bit (sorry) whereas he appears to have a better understanding of the issues at hand and is not as emotive. I don't really have a dog in this fight.
Are you sure I am the one who goes off topic and waffles? can you point me to any post where there was an issue being debated and I went off topic and waffled? Surely you must have an idea and you would not state it without evidence?allnighter said:
burwoodman said:
without being rude, I think it fair to say that whilst some of what you have to say is valid, you don't have the ability to debate at the level of Grump. You go off topic and waffle a bit (sorry) whereas he appears to have a better understanding of the issues at hand and is not as emotive. I don't really have a dog in this fight.
Are you sure I am the one who goes off topic and waffles? can you point me to any post where there was an issue being debated and I went off topic and waffled? Surely you must have an idea and you would not state it without evidence?I have humoured you so far, and you turned out to be another random troll with the nonsense you came up with so far.
PS: Every time someone starts some random nonsense with the phrase "without being rude" you can almost guarantee that's exactly what they're going to be.
Jog on matey!
allnighter said:
o just as I thought burwoodman, no evidence of your assertion and just pure conjuncture on your part because as I suspect you do have a dog in this fight.
I have humoured you so far, and you turned out to be another random troll with the nonsense you came up with so far.
PS: Every time someone starts some random nonsense with the phrase "without being rude" you can almost guarantee that's exactly what they're going to be.
Jog on matey!
Without being rude but I draw the courts attention to exhibit A:I have humoured you so far, and you turned out to be another random troll with the nonsense you came up with so far.
PS: Every time someone starts some random nonsense with the phrase "without being rude" you can almost guarantee that's exactly what they're going to be.
Jog on matey!
allnighter said:
You have the intellectual ability of a canary.
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