Discussion
Four Litre said:
Governments silence from around the world on this is deafening.
If you listen hard you can just hear a murmur. I wonder if this is the old planning permission -- propose something horrific, get permission for something smaller -- stunt, writ huge?
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Wednesday 3rd September 00:24
Grumfutock said:
Well it has been over 24 hours and I can see you are all desperate to keep prodding this with your little sticks to keep it alive. So I thought I would drop by and leave this one for you. Enjoy 
No, just illustrating the absurdity of some of the Israeli and IDF claims. You are welcome to reference my Mark Regev sponsored responses, a bullsh*t bingo to entertain you.Hamas are no different, they play the propaganda game, it suits them to have collateral damage. You have almost 2000 people killed but support for Hamas has risen. Israel is happy to play bad cop and Hamas is happy to let them.
The "Buffer zone" or "settlements" are clearly wrong, but supporters will defend them to the hilt and opponents will deride. The great game continues.
Grumfutock said:
Well it has been over 24 hours and I can see you are all desperate to keep prodding this with your little sticks to keep it alive. So I thought I would drop by and leave this one for you. Enjoy
You just can't help yourself can you. Do you have anything constructive to say about the new settlements or are you on here because you always have to have the last word? Are they still buffer zones? And does that make the Israelis living on the land human shields? Or does this mean Israel has to grab even more land to maintain the buffer zones?
How you can possibly support such behaviour is honestly beyond me. But I'm sure you will.
I would fully expect the rise in Hamas support to be a relatively short lived thing. I would also suggest that is EXACTLY why they started the war. Not settlements, not freedom, not any other reason.
They have lost so much support within the Arabic world because of their support for Assad and the Muslim brotherhood that they had to get them to see Israel as the big bad man again, how better than to get them to kill poor innocent Palestinians. They had also lost a lot of support in Gaza, how better to regain that than to provoke a war.
So they had to sacrifice 2,000 of their own innocent people? So what, small beer to terrorists!
But who cares? They have convinced the world that everything is the Israelis fault haven't they.
They have lost so much support within the Arabic world because of their support for Assad and the Muslim brotherhood that they had to get them to see Israel as the big bad man again, how better than to get them to kill poor innocent Palestinians. They had also lost a lot of support in Gaza, how better to regain that than to provoke a war.
So they had to sacrifice 2,000 of their own innocent people? So what, small beer to terrorists!
But who cares? They have convinced the world that everything is the Israelis fault haven't they.
Grumfutock said:
I would fully expect the rise in Hamas support to be a relatively short lived thing. I would also suggest that is EXACTLY why they started the war. Not settlements, not freedom, not any other reason.
They have lost so much support within the Arabic world because of their support for Assad and the Muslim brotherhood that they had to get them to see Israel as the big bad man again, how better than to get them to kill poor innocent Palestinians. They had also lost a lot of support in Gaza, how better to regain that than to provoke a war.
So they had to sacrifice 2,000 of their own innocent people? So what, small beer to terrorists!
But who cares? They have convinced the world that everything is the Israelis fault haven't they.
Hamas started the war ? The blame lays on both sides for that. Just the same as peace will take both sides.They have lost so much support within the Arabic world because of their support for Assad and the Muslim brotherhood that they had to get them to see Israel as the big bad man again, how better than to get them to kill poor innocent Palestinians. They had also lost a lot of support in Gaza, how better to regain that than to provoke a war.
So they had to sacrifice 2,000 of their own innocent people? So what, small beer to terrorists!
But who cares? They have convinced the world that everything is the Israelis fault haven't they.
The settlements are, have been, and will be a huge issue. Did you look at the settlement above?
Explain to me how that specific settlement provides a strategic buffer zone? Not in general terms, but that specific settlement.
Grumfutock said:
I would fully expect the rise in Hamas support to be a relatively short lived thing. I would also suggest that is EXACTLY why they started the war. Not settlements, not freedom, not any other reason.
They have lost so much support within the Arabic world because of their support for Assad and the Muslim brotherhood that they had to get them to see Israel as the big bad man again, how better than to get them to kill poor innocent Palestinians. They had also lost a lot of support in Gaza, how better to regain that than to provoke a war.
So they had to sacrifice 2,000 of their own innocent people? So what, small beer to terrorists!
But who cares? They have convinced the world that everything is the Israelis fault haven't they.
Nonsense! Hamas might be guilty of war crimes in targeting civilians by firing rockets at Israel, but to claim they sacrificed 2,000 Palestinians is a falsehood. Those 2,000 dead Palestinians , many of whom were innocent civilians, died as a direct result of Israel's reckless bombing campaign.They have lost so much support within the Arabic world because of their support for Assad and the Muslim brotherhood that they had to get them to see Israel as the big bad man again, how better than to get them to kill poor innocent Palestinians. They had also lost a lot of support in Gaza, how better to regain that than to provoke a war.
So they had to sacrifice 2,000 of their own innocent people? So what, small beer to terrorists!
But who cares? They have convinced the world that everything is the Israelis fault haven't they.
Arab lives are cheap nowadays especially after what's going in other parts of the middle east. Why should Israel be careful about Palestinian casualties?
The latest conflict was started on a lie, you know the big fat lie that Hamas sanctioned the killing of the 3 Israeli boys. Well it turned out to be false. Israel took that random murder as an opportunity to start a new bombing campaign against the Palestinians which then started the tit for tat vicious circle of violence with Hamas firing rockets.
Israel goes on to establishing through an effective propaganda machine that rockets attacks were the causa prima of this latest conflict seeking to rationalise much of its disproportionate conduct. Well "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." as Abraham Lincoln once said.
Claims of Hamas weapons being stored near civilian facilities may be true but it is inevitable in a densely populated area like Gaza.
Let's not forget that the Zionist militias, Irgun, Haganah and Stern Gang (the same groups that killed British officers in the King David Hotel bombing) that would later integrate into the IDF, employed similar tactics.
And even when the IDF’s ‘Neighbour Procedure’, which used Palestinian civilians as human shields, was banned by the Supreme Court in 2005, this was a deeply contested decision by executive ministers:
"On Sunday the IDF Southern Command’s Military Court ruled that two Givati Division soldiers acted inappropriately when they ordered a Palestinian boy to open bags suspected of containing bombs during Operation Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip last year. The two staff sergeants face up to a three-year prison sentence.
The IDF uses the term “neighbor procedure” to describe the use of the enemy’s civilian population to perform duties normally performed by IDF soldiers."
"Prof. Asa Kasher, author of the IDF’s code of ethics, said Tuesday.
“What those two soldiers did was wrong,” said Kasher in a telephone interview, endorsing the military court ruling. “But there are situations in which the use of the enemy’s civilian population to defuse a potentially explosive situation is not only ethically permissible, it also saves lives.”
Edited by allnighter on Wednesday 3rd September 00:22
Note how Netanyahu is now saying Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS are all the same. (How's that?) Israel is the West's bastion against all these nasty folk, don't harm us..........
“I think the UN would do itself a great favor if, instead of the automatic Israel bashing, they actually turn their attention and their investigative committees against these terrorists who trample every norm on which the UN was founded,” he continued, referring to harsh criticism from the UN of Israel’s recent campaign in the Gaza Strip."
Read more: Netanyahu to UN: Don't bash Israel, fight Islamists | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-to-un-fight...
Oh, the irony, the hubris!
“I think the UN would do itself a great favor if, instead of the automatic Israel bashing, they actually turn their attention and their investigative committees against these terrorists who trample every norm on which the UN was founded,” he continued, referring to harsh criticism from the UN of Israel’s recent campaign in the Gaza Strip."
Read more: Netanyahu to UN: Don't bash Israel, fight Islamists | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-to-un-fight...
Oh, the irony, the hubris!
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Wednesday 3rd September 00:54
Sorry but I simply cannot remain silent....
Is it ok for me to wander off and kill 15 people I disagree with based on the idea that there are people that kill way more with no (IMO) justification?
STOP POKING THE TIGER!
Now, as I have asked previously, is anybody prepared to justify these settlements in conjunction with the peace process? ;(
Is it ok for me to wander off and kill 15 people I disagree with based on the idea that there are people that kill way more with no (IMO) justification?
STOP POKING THE TIGER!
Now, as I have asked previously, is anybody prepared to justify these settlements in conjunction with the peace process? ;(
TheRealFingers99 said:
Note how Netanyahu is now saying Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS are all the same. (How's that?) Israel is the West's bastion against all these nasty folk, don't harm us..........
“I think the UN would do itself a great favor if, instead of the automatic Israel bashing, they actually turn their attention and their investigative committees against these terrorists who trample every norm on which the UN was founded,” he continued, referring to harsh criticism from the UN of Israel’s recent campaign in the Gaza Strip."
Read more: Netanyahu to UN: Don't bash Israel, fight Islamists | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-to-un-fight...
Oh, the irony, the hubris!
Israel’s Islamaphobic rhetoric homogenizes Islamic political thought, suggesting Hamas, Hezbollah and Isis are in the same boat. 'Hasbara' is at work 24H a day!“I think the UN would do itself a great favor if, instead of the automatic Israel bashing, they actually turn their attention and their investigative committees against these terrorists who trample every norm on which the UN was founded,” he continued, referring to harsh criticism from the UN of Israel’s recent campaign in the Gaza Strip."
Read more: Netanyahu to UN: Don't bash Israel, fight Islamists | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-to-un-fight...
Oh, the irony, the hubris!
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Wednesday 3rd September 00:54
Grumfutock said:
I would also suggest that is EXACTLY why they started the war. Not settlements, not freedom, not any other reason.
They had also lost a lot of support in Gaza, how better to regain that than to provoke a war.
So they had to sacrifice 2,000 of their own innocent people? So what, small beer to terrorists!
What utter rubbish and nonsense! They had also lost a lot of support in Gaza, how better to regain that than to provoke a war.
So they had to sacrifice 2,000 of their own innocent people? So what, small beer to terrorists!
SR7492 said:
Grumfutock said:
I would also suggest that is EXACTLY why they started the war. Not settlements, not freedom, not any other reason.
They had also lost a lot of support in Gaza, how better to regain that than to provoke a war.
So they had to sacrifice 2,000 of their own innocent people? So what, small beer to terrorists!
What utter rubbish and nonsense! They had also lost a lot of support in Gaza, how better to regain that than to provoke a war.
So they had to sacrifice 2,000 of their own innocent people? So what, small beer to terrorists!
You may wish to read this article as it discusses the rise in Hamas support:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/...
It wouldn't be the first time this sort of thing has happened now would it so why are you so sure?
An interesting article on the matter.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around...
Edited by Grumfutock on Wednesday 3rd September 08:43
ETA links.
Edited by Grumfutock on Wednesday 3rd September 08:55
allnighter said:
The latest conflict was started on a lie, you know the big fat lie that Hamas sanctioned the killing of the 3 Israeli boys. Well it turned out to be false. Israel took that random murder
It wasn't a random murder, it was a deliberate sectarian killing of 3 young lads. Hamas either did it, sanctioned it, or knows who did it, or can easily find out.Everyone knows how Israel react to the killing of their citizens by their enemies. Look at what they did in southern Lebanon after Hezbollah killed the 2 Israeli girls a few years back in Haifa. (the Israeli girls were Arabs, but Israel's fury was the same, as they were Israeli citizens.)
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Everyone knows how Israel react to the killing of their citizens by their enemies. Look at what they did in southern Lebanon after Hezbollah killed the 2 Israeli girls a few years back in Haifa. (the Israeli girls were Arabs, but Israel's fury was the same, as they were Israeli citizens.)
What Israel did in Lebanon had nothing to do with the two Israeli Arab girls. The conflict started before they were killed. They were casualties (along with 44 other Israelis, 17 of whom were arabs) and over 1000 lebanese civilians. Given the treatment of Israeli arabs by their Govt. I doubt very much they would have gone to war over their deaths.Countdown said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Everyone knows how Israel react to the killing of their citizens by their enemies. Look at what they did in southern Lebanon after Hezbollah killed the 2 Israeli girls a few years back in Haifa. (the Israeli girls were Arabs, but Israel's fury was the same, as they were Israeli citizens.)
What Israel did in Lebanon had nothing to do with the two Israeli Arab girls. The conflict started before they were killed. They were casualties (along with 44 other Israelis, 17 of whom were arabs) and over 1000 lebanese civilians. Given the treatment of Israeli arabs by their Govt. I doubt very much they would have gone to war over their deaths.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff