Discussion
TwigtheWonderkid said:
There are Arabs MPs in the Israeli parliament. How many Jewish MPs are there in parliaments across the Arab world? In fact, how many parliaments are there in the Arab world? Proper ones, where the ruling party can change after an election, as opposed to some pathetic sham set up by a the controlling despot.
Turkey.TwigtheWonderkid said:
Countdown said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Everyone knows how Israel react to the killing of their citizens by their enemies. Look at what they did in southern Lebanon after Hezbollah killed the 2 Israeli girls a few years back in Haifa. (the Israeli girls were Arabs, but Israel's fury was the same, as they were Israeli citizens.)
What Israel did in Lebanon had nothing to do with the two Israeli Arab girls. The conflict started before they were killed. They were casualties (along with 44 other Israelis, 17 of whom were arabs) and over 1000 lebanese civilians. Given the treatment of Israeli arabs by their Govt. I doubt very much they would have gone to war over their deaths.Please keep to the Topic of ignoring all the good that Israeli's do and concentrate on the current Gaza situation,whilst acknowledging but then ignoring the mainly corrupt leaders of the Palestinians and the long history of enmity between the two factions.
Oh,nearly forgot,the creation of Israel was a Western construct and therefore illegitimate anyway.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
There are Arabs MPs in the Israeli parliament. How many Jewish MPs are there in parliaments across the Arab world? In fact, how many parliaments are there in the Arab world? Proper ones, where the ruling party can change after an election, as opposed to some pathetic sham set up by a the controlling despot.
Turkey.Or do you just mean a Parliament? One which is democratic and doesn't get massively influenced by the Army? Might want to check that one as well.
Edited by Grumfutock on Wednesday 3rd September 14:20
Grumfutock said:
You absolutely sure there are Jewish MP's in the Turkish Parliament? Might want to check that one.
Or do you just mean a Parliament? One which is democratic and doesn't get massively influenced by the Army? Might want to check that one as well.
Which part of what I said was inaccurate ? Perhaps some investigation is due on your part.Or do you just mean a Parliament? One which is democratic and doesn't get massively influenced by the Army? Might want to check that one as well.
Edited by Grumfutock on Wednesday 3rd September 14:20
The IDF does not have any influence over Israel and the government... None at all ? Remarkable. Considering almost every single Israeli MP, including women, (baring the ultra orthodox) has served, or is currently serving as a reservist in the IDF.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Wednesday 3rd September 14:57
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Which part of what I said was inaccurate ? Perhaps some investigation is due on your part.
The IDF does not have any influence over Israel and the government... None at all ? Remarkable. Considering almost every single Israeli MP (baring the ultra orthodox) has served or is currently serving as a reservist in the IDF.
WHAT? You said Turkey! Who mentioned the IDF or Israel?The IDF does not have any influence over Israel and the government... None at all ? Remarkable. Considering almost every single Israeli MP (baring the ultra orthodox) has served or is currently serving as a reservist in the IDF.
And of course every member of the Knesset is ex IDF, they have conscription!!
Edited by Grumfutock on Wednesday 3rd September 15:02
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Which part of what I said was inaccurate ? Perhaps some investigation is due on your part.
The IDF does not have any influence over Israel and the government... None at all ? Remarkable. Considering almost every single Israeli MP (baring the ultra orthodox) has served or is currently serving as a reservist in the IDF.
What influence does the IDF have over the voting process, other than the fact that the members of the IDF all get a vote each, as do Arab Israelis.The IDF does not have any influence over Israel and the government... None at all ? Remarkable. Considering almost every single Israeli MP (baring the ultra orthodox) has served or is currently serving as a reservist in the IDF.
Not forgetting there are Arabs in the IDF, which is another inconvenient fact.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Grumfutock said:
WHAT? You said Turkey! Who mentioned the IDF or Israel?
Read the original comment I responded to, before your untimely interjection.TwigtheWonderkid said:
There are Arabs MPs in the Israeli parliament. How many Jewish MPs are there in parliaments across the Arab world? In fact, how many parliaments are there in the Arab world? Proper ones, where the ruling party can change after an election, as opposed to some pathetic sham set up by a the controlling despot.
Er OK so which question did you answer? How many Jews in an arab parliament or how many aren't a pathetic sham being controlled?Or perhaps you see a 3rd question?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
What influence does the IDF have over the voting process, other than the fact that the members of the IDF all get a vote each, as do Arab Israelis.
Not forgetting there are Arabs in the IDF, which is another inconvenient fact.
So the IDF conscripts almost the entire Israeli population, for a minimum of 2 years, for military training has no influence over voting in Israel? I have a little experience with this, and that is simply not true.Not forgetting there are Arabs in the IDF, which is another inconvenient fact.
It must be like Rupert Murdoch has no influence over voting in the UK then.
The Arab IDF members, sounds like the perfect place for Hamas to integrate into, a win win for both sides.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
What influence does the IDF have over the voting process, other than the fact that the members of the IDF all get a vote each, as do Arab Israelis.
Not forgetting there are Arabs in the IDF, which is another inconvenient fact.
So the IDF conscripts almost the entire Israeli population, for a minimum of 2 years, for military training has no influence over voting in Israel? I have a little experience with this, and that is simply not true.Not forgetting there are Arabs in the IDF, which is another inconvenient fact.
It must be like Rupert Murdoch has no influence over voting in the UK then.
The Arab IDF members, sounds like the perfect place for Hamas to integrate into, a win win for both sides.
Using criteria that is not applied to virtually any other country.
Carefully inserting the odd back handed compliment to camouflage your undoubted bias.
You are entitled to be anti Zionist,non approving of Israeli government policy etc,etc
That's fine by me but why go on and on and on and on and on............................
avinalarf said:
Don't you guys occasionally get fed up with bashing Israel ?
Using criteria that is not applied to virtually any other country.
Carefully inserting the odd back handed compliment to camouflage your undoubted bias.
You are entitled to be anti Zionist,non approving of Israeli government policy etc,etc
That's fine by me but why go on and on and on and on and on............................
Because the evil Zionist empire must be stopped! Using criteria that is not applied to virtually any other country.
Carefully inserting the odd back handed compliment to camouflage your undoubted bias.
You are entitled to be anti Zionist,non approving of Israeli government policy etc,etc
That's fine by me but why go on and on and on and on and on............................
avinalarf said:
Don't you guys occasionally get fed up with bashing Israel ?
Using criteria that is not applied to virtually any other country.
You're right there, if anyone else did what Israel did - it would not be called a "fair and open Western style democracy" - it would be muttered in the same breath as many other countries with despicable leadership and quite frankly it is beginning to.Using criteria that is not applied to virtually any other country.
http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps/saudi.htm
Just look at the size of the evil nation taking all that Arab land....
Just look at the size of the evil nation taking all that Arab land....
Grumfutock said:
avinalarf said:
Don't you guys occasionally get fed up with bashing Israel ?
Using criteria that is not applied to virtually any other country.
Carefully inserting the odd back handed compliment to camouflage your undoubted bias.
You are entitled to be anti Zionist,non approving of Israeli government policy etc,etc
That's fine by me but why go on and on and on and on and on............................
Because the evil Zionist empire must be stopped! Using criteria that is not applied to virtually any other country.
Carefully inserting the odd back handed compliment to camouflage your undoubted bias.
You are entitled to be anti Zionist,non approving of Israeli government policy etc,etc
That's fine by me but why go on and on and on and on and on............................
However If one believes that Zionism is intrinsically wrong (a belief one is entitled to hold)that rather closes down the debate.
If one believes that Israel's actions have always been the cause of the many conflicts that also rather closes down the debate.
If one accepts that serious errors of judgement have been made by both P's and I's over the past 60 years then we may go forward with a reasonable discussion.
zuby84 said:
avinalarf said:
Don't you guys occasionally get fed up with bashing Israel ?
Using criteria that is not applied to virtually any other country.
You're right there, if anyone else did what Israel did - it would not be called a "fair and open Western style democracy" - it would be muttered in the same breath as many other countries with despicable leadership and quite frankly it is beginning to.Using criteria that is not applied to virtually any other country.
Grumfutock said:
Er OK so which question did you answer? How many Jews in an arab parliament or how many aren't a pathetic sham being controlled?
Or perhaps you see a 3rd question?
Turkey is a stable democratic majority Muslim country, Politics of Turkey takes place in a framework of a strictly secular parliamentary representative democratic republic, whereby the Prime Minister of Turkey is the head of government, and of a multi-party system that has included Jewish members of parliament. The military has a commensurate influence on political life, when compared to the IDF and Knesset.Or perhaps you see a 3rd question?
You will notice I actually answer the question.
avinalarf said:
Don't you guys occasionally get fed up with bashing Israel ?
Using criteria that is not applied to virtually any other country.
Carefully inserting the odd back handed compliment to camouflage your undoubted bias.
You are entitled to be anti Zionist,non approving of Israeli government policy etc,etc
That's fine by me but why go on and on and on and on and on............................
I admire Israel for what is has achieved in its short history, I admire the pioneering spirit of the place and people. I do not admire what it has done and continues to do in regards to the Palestinians. The Israeli stance reminds me of Apartheid, the same words, the same justifications, the policies, the vociferous defending of the indefensible. Using criteria that is not applied to virtually any other country.
Carefully inserting the odd back handed compliment to camouflage your undoubted bias.
You are entitled to be anti Zionist,non approving of Israeli government policy etc,etc
That's fine by me but why go on and on and on and on and on............................
People mention the Arabs in the IDF as some kind of indication of equality. The South African army had a large contingent of excellent non-white troops, that fact did not make Apartheid right. Non-whites were allowed to vote in SA, they even had representation in the South African parliament, that did not make Apartheid right.
They were told where they could live, who they could associate with and this resulted in a frustration. This frustration spilled into violence. I do not condone the violence but I do understand it.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Wednesday 3rd September 16:40
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