Discussion
TheRealFingers99 said:
WTF have Hamas (more murdering b
ds) have to do with Israeli assassinations, settler violence, attacks in the Lebanon?
I'm loosing count of the number of times I've attacked Hamas. What you refuse to do is to criticise Israel.
OK I've had enough,I am going to do it,I am going to criticise Israel.ds) have to do with Israeli assassinations, settler violence, attacks in the Lebanon? I'm loosing count of the number of times I've attacked Hamas. What you refuse to do is to criticise Israel.
I visited Israel some years ago and I can categorically state that their version of McDonalds is bloomin awful.
There you go.
Mrr T said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
Israel did show some restraint. They could easily have nuked Gaza. Or saturated the place with cluster munitions, white phosphorous, etc. Nevertheless, I'd atgue that they did not keep to their obligations regarding non-combatants and may have used illegal weaponry again.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east...
What obligations to non combatants under international law have they not kept. Please explain, I cannot not see any obvious examples. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east...
"Rule 1. The parties to the conflict must at all times distinguish between civilians and combatants. Attacks may only be directed against combatants. Attacks must not be directed against civilians."
Of course, both sides ignored Rule 1.
Mrr T said:
You do understand unlike say anti personal mines these weapons are not actually banned. What we have are certain left wing politicians/lawyers imposing there own interpretation on various treaties to say certain weapons are outlawed. Based on the fact much more serious weapons have been used by the UK and the US in the last 70 years I would suggest these weapon are not subject to any ban.
However, no charges under international law have ever been brought.
Yet! TheRealFingers99 said:
Mrr T said:
Genocide is a crime but I note the UK and the US managed to deliberately wipe out up to 1m non combatants in WW2 and no one was prosecuted.
Winner's justice? I'd view both as war crimes. TheRealFingers99 said:
You can't find one! And, I wasn't adding the photo from Sabra/Shatila for effect, but for accuracy. It was yet another Israeli atrocity, for which Amos Yaron is, I believe, still facing war crimes charges.
"The UN commission led by MacBride concluded that the massacre was a form of genocide.[17] In 1983, the Israeli Kahan Commission, appointed to investigate the incident, found that Israeli military personnel, aware that a massacre was in progress, had failed to take serious steps to stop it. The commission deemed Israel indirectly responsible," http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_mas...
The massacre is the subject of the Israeli film Waltz with Bashir
I note he is facing charges in Belgium and has even been convicted I believe in Malaysia."The UN commission led by MacBride concluded that the massacre was a form of genocide.[17] In 1983, the Israeli Kahan Commission, appointed to investigate the incident, found that Israeli military personnel, aware that a massacre was in progress, had failed to take serious steps to stop it. The commission deemed Israel indirectly responsible," http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_mas...
The massacre is the subject of the Israeli film Waltz with Bashir
However, no charges under international law have ever been brought.
Although Amos Yaron was doubtless a guilty party, note that he was charged and convicted jointly with the State of Israel:
"THE KUALA LUMPUR WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL
20 – 25 NOVEMBER 2013
Case No. 3 – CHG – 2013
The Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission
Against
Amos Yaron
Case No. 4 – CHG – 2013
The Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission
Against
The State of Israel"
See for example and note:
“The perpetrators [State of Israel] had committed acts against the Palestinians, with intent to kill, cause serious bodily or mental harms and deliberately inflict conditions of life calculated to bring about the physical destruction of the Palestinians as a whole or in part.”
“The Tribunal recommends to the War Crimes Commission to give the widest international publicity to this conviction and grant of reparations, as these are universal crimes for which there is a responsibility upon nations to institute prosecutions.
The Tribunal deplores the failure of international institutions to punish the State of Israel for its crimes and its total lack of respect of International Law and the institutions of the United Nations.”
avinalarf said:
OK I've had enough,I am going to do it,I am going to criticise Israel.
I visited Israel some years ago and I can categorically state that their version of McDonalds is bloomin awful.
There you go.
I actually quite like Kosher food. Anyone know the name of those sausage rolls we used to get in Shepherd's Bush? I visited Israel some years ago and I can categorically state that their version of McDonalds is bloomin awful.
There you go.
Ayahuasca said:
Gotta love the IDF!
Sure."Her limbs were smeared on the wall
testimony catalog number: 188758
rank: Staff Sergeant
unit: Givati Shaked
area: Gaza strip
There was an operation in the company next to mine where they told me that a woman was blown up by a fox [Explosives used to break through doors and walls], her limbs were smeared on the wall, but it wasn’t on purpose. They knocked and knocked on the door and there was no answer, so they decided to open it wet. He put down a fox and just at that moment the woman decided to open the door. And then her kids came over and saw her. I heard about it during dinner after the operation, someone said it was funny, and everyone cracked up, that the kids saw their mother smeared on the wall. That’s an example. I was also screamed at by my platoon in our Achzarit [“evil lady,” is a heavily armored personnel carrier that is mostly used by the Golani Brigade] when I thought about giving the detainees we had with us some water from the platoon’s canteen—the field canteen, twenty- four liters. They said “What, are you f
ked in the head?” I don’t know what their reason was, but they said: “Germs, come on.” In Nahal Oz there was an incident with kids who’d apparently been sent by their parents to try to get into Israel because their families were hungry, to try to find food or I don’t know what. Anything like that, it’s a hunt, fresh turkey. We did a patrol at Nahal Oz. There were fourteen- or fifteen-year-old boys, I think. I remember a boy sitting blindfolded and then someone who everyone knew was a jerk came and hit him, here. On the legs. And he spilled some oil on him, the stuff we use to clean weapons, I don’t remember where. Did anything happen? He did it in the middle of the company, but there was no officer to see it. I said something to him in the moment, but I didn’t yell at him and I didn’t tell my officer that he did this and that. Theft was very common as well. Souvenirs, flags, cigarettes. The commanders and officers didn’t notice it, even though it was common? I think they did, and if not, my company commander knew because I told him. And what did he say? Good that I brought it to his attention. And was it stopped? I don’t think so. It wasn’t stopped. Earlier you brought up the issue of slaughtering animals. It was during one of the operations in the Achzarit, even the first, I think. The company sergeant major was commander of one of the APCs, and there were horses and sheep there, maybe even donkeys, and he sprayed bullets with the MAG out the window and maybe even ran them over, I don’t remember. He shot the animals. Did anyone ask any questions? No, it wasn’t in my APC, but I know about it. How do you know about it? Can you repeat the story? The whole company was in the APCs there, or in the houses where the operation was—first of all, I think I saw dead sheep, things get mixed up in my head. Someone told me that someone shot them. During the operation we talked about what happened, and he told me about shooting the sheep. It wasn’t something I needed to verify, it didn’t sound illogical that it happened. Was it a one-time occurrence? I think so."http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/d...
TheRealFingers99 said:
Actually, to the Mosad assassinations of Iranian scientists. You'll discover that the bombing was actually condemned by the UN.
So what? The Yanks bombed Libya in 1986 and killed 75 people. Are they terrorists? The Brits killed 25 in Sierra Leonne in 2000. Are they Terrorists? Russia has just shot down an airline (allegedly) killing 283 people. Are they terrorists? So Israel killed some people? Big deal. ALL nations do it but nobody jumps on the band wagon about that do they? Why do you consider Israel to be held to a higher standard?TheRealFingers99 said:
WTF have Hamas (more murdering bds) have to do with Israeli assassinations (except against Hamas), settler violence, attacks in the Lebanon?
I'm loosing count of the number of times I've attacked Hamas. What you refuse to do is to criticise Israel.
Because you seem to think that Israeli attacks are some sort of barbaric, unprovoked attack. I point out the Hamas ones in the vain hope of trying to point out to you that they are generally a response to attacks by terrorists. Hence the recent war!!! This really shouldn't be that hard to follow mate!ds) have to do with Israeli assassinations (except against Hamas), settler violence, attacks in the Lebanon? I'm loosing count of the number of times I've attacked Hamas. What you refuse to do is to criticise Israel.
TheRealFingers99 said:
Sure.
"Her limbs were smeared on the wall
testimony catalog number: 188758
rank: Staff Sergeant
unit: Givati Shaked
area: Gaza strip
There was an operation in the company next to mine where they told me that a woman was blown up by a fox [Explosives used to break through doors and walls], her limbs were smeared on the wall, but it wasn’t on purpose. They knocked and knocked on the door and there was no answer, so they decided to open it wet. He put down a fox and just at that moment the woman decided to open the door. And then her kids came over and saw her. I heard about it during dinner after the operation, someone said it was funny, and everyone cracked up, that the kids saw their mother smeared on the wall. That’s an example. I was also screamed at by my platoon in our Achzarit [“evil lady,” is a heavily armored personnel carrier that is mostly used by the Golani Brigade] when I thought about giving the detainees we had with us some water from the platoon’s canteen—the field canteen, twenty- four liters. They said “What, are you fked in the head?” I don’t know what their reason was, but they said: “Germs, come on.” In Nahal Oz there was an incident with kids who’d apparently been sent by their parents to try to get into Israel because their families were hungry, to try to find food or I don’t know what. Anything like that, it’s a hunt, fresh turkey. We did a patrol at Nahal Oz. There were fourteen- or fifteen-year-old boys, I think. I remember a boy sitting blindfolded and then someone who everyone knew was a jerk came and hit him, here. On the legs. And he spilled some oil on him, the stuff we use to clean weapons, I don’t remember where. Did anything happen? He did it in the middle of the company, but there was no officer to see it. I said something to him in the moment, but I didn’t yell at him and I didn’t tell my officer that he did this and that. Theft was very common as well. Souvenirs, flags, cigarettes. The commanders and officers didn’t notice it, even though it was common? I think they did, and if not, my company commander knew because I told him. And what did he say? Good that I brought it to his attention. And was it stopped? I don’t think so. It wasn’t stopped. Earlier you brought up the issue of slaughtering animals. It was during one of the operations in the Achzarit, even the first, I think. The company sergeant major was commander of one of the APCs, and there were horses and sheep there, maybe even donkeys, and he sprayed bullets with the MAG out the window and maybe even ran them over, I don’t remember. He shot the animals. Did anyone ask any questions? No, it wasn’t in my APC, but I know about it. How do you know about it? Can you repeat the story? The whole company was in the APCs there, or in the houses where the operation was—first of all, I think I saw dead sheep, things get mixed up in my head. Someone told me that someone shot them. During the operation we talked about what happened, and he told me about shooting the sheep. It wasn’t something I needed to verify, it didn’t sound illogical that it happened. Was it a one-time occurrence? I think so."
http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/d...
Thanks for posting. I wonder how much exposure this gets "within" Israel."Her limbs were smeared on the wall
testimony catalog number: 188758
rank: Staff Sergeant
unit: Givati Shaked
area: Gaza strip
There was an operation in the company next to mine where they told me that a woman was blown up by a fox [Explosives used to break through doors and walls], her limbs were smeared on the wall, but it wasn’t on purpose. They knocked and knocked on the door and there was no answer, so they decided to open it wet. He put down a fox and just at that moment the woman decided to open the door. And then her kids came over and saw her. I heard about it during dinner after the operation, someone said it was funny, and everyone cracked up, that the kids saw their mother smeared on the wall. That’s an example. I was also screamed at by my platoon in our Achzarit [“evil lady,” is a heavily armored personnel carrier that is mostly used by the Golani Brigade] when I thought about giving the detainees we had with us some water from the platoon’s canteen—the field canteen, twenty- four liters. They said “What, are you f
ked in the head?” I don’t know what their reason was, but they said: “Germs, come on.” In Nahal Oz there was an incident with kids who’d apparently been sent by their parents to try to get into Israel because their families were hungry, to try to find food or I don’t know what. Anything like that, it’s a hunt, fresh turkey. We did a patrol at Nahal Oz. There were fourteen- or fifteen-year-old boys, I think. I remember a boy sitting blindfolded and then someone who everyone knew was a jerk came and hit him, here. On the legs. And he spilled some oil on him, the stuff we use to clean weapons, I don’t remember where. Did anything happen? He did it in the middle of the company, but there was no officer to see it. I said something to him in the moment, but I didn’t yell at him and I didn’t tell my officer that he did this and that. Theft was very common as well. Souvenirs, flags, cigarettes. The commanders and officers didn’t notice it, even though it was common? I think they did, and if not, my company commander knew because I told him. And what did he say? Good that I brought it to his attention. And was it stopped? I don’t think so. It wasn’t stopped. Earlier you brought up the issue of slaughtering animals. It was during one of the operations in the Achzarit, even the first, I think. The company sergeant major was commander of one of the APCs, and there were horses and sheep there, maybe even donkeys, and he sprayed bullets with the MAG out the window and maybe even ran them over, I don’t remember. He shot the animals. Did anyone ask any questions? No, it wasn’t in my APC, but I know about it. How do you know about it? Can you repeat the story? The whole company was in the APCs there, or in the houses where the operation was—first of all, I think I saw dead sheep, things get mixed up in my head. Someone told me that someone shot them. During the operation we talked about what happened, and he told me about shooting the sheep. It wasn’t something I needed to verify, it didn’t sound illogical that it happened. Was it a one-time occurrence? I think so."http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/d...
zuby84 said:
There's no point guys. Somewhere in the backwaters of Afghanistan, there's a village idiot defending the actions of Al Qaeda using the same logic as Grumfutock.
Same type of person, just different villages....
I disagree. For example Grum et al might not have responded openly to TheReal's post but you never know, some of them might have read it and perhaps understood a little of the issues faced by Palestnians on a daily basis.Same type of person, just different villages....
UN condemns placement of rockets in Gaza schools:
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa...
Why do the Gazeans place rockets in schools, if not to invite the inevitable 'IDF bombs school' headlines?
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa...
Why do the Gazeans place rockets in schools, if not to invite the inevitable 'IDF bombs school' headlines?
Ayahuasca said:
UN condemns placement of rockets in Gaza schools:
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa...
Why do the Gazeans place rockets in schools, if not to invite the inevitable 'IDF bombs school' headlines?
But that would mean Israel would bomb and kill innocent kids. How could Hamas gain from that......WAIT A MINUTE!http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa...
Why do the Gazeans place rockets in schools, if not to invite the inevitable 'IDF bombs school' headlines?
There are already report coming out of plenty of Grads being fired and not reaching Israel, instead landing in Gaza and killing their own people. Strangely Hamas then blame it on an IDF missile strike even though the damage and ground impact leave completely different results!
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/world/middleeast...
http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2014...
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