Discussion
TheRealFingers99 said:
Time for peace. I suggest free, one person one vote, elections throughout Palestine and Israel. "Palisrael" -- a one state solution. The right of residence for all Jews, the right of return for Palestinian refugees. Jerusalem and Hebron to be city states under UN control.
What a nice idea, but totally impossible based on how each side wants to enforce things.Palestine does not welcome anyone who is not a muslim to settle there, and they certainly do not allow gays, atheists or jews.
By contrast, Israel welcomes everyone, whether, gay, atheist or muslim - they operate as any decent westernised nation would. There are many muslims/gays/atheists living happily in Israel.
Thinking about it, there are so few places in the middle east that would allow a jew, or a gay or an atheist to settle and live happily.
Until Palestine and many other muslim countries separate their religious ideology from the way their country is run, they will continue to be breeding grounds for hatred of anything that is not 'islamic'.
As far as i am concerned, i've had enough of palestine, and pretty much the rest of the middle east. The rest of the world has moved on and they seem to be living hundreds of years in the past, simply because they use their muslim rules as the rules of their land. it's patheitc and there is no place for it in the modern world.
nitrodave said:
What a nice idea, but totally impossible based on how each side wants to enforce things.
Palestine does not welcome anyone who is not a muslim to settle there, and they certainly do not allow gays, atheists or jews.
Palestine does not welcome anyone who is not a muslim to settle there, and they certainly do not allow gays, atheists or jews.
That's why a one state solution -- Palisrael. Pre-partition there were Palestinians and Jews living side by side. But Palestine is an occupied "state" -- it has no real control over who lives there. There are Jews living in Palestinian enclaves in the West Bank -- obviously, most are anti-Zionist leftists.
nitrodave said:
By contrast, Israel welcomes everyone, whether, gay, atheist or muslim - they operate as any decent westernised nation would. There are many muslims/gays/atheists living happily in Israel.
There are frequent attacks on non-Jewish Israelis -- even recent moves to make Hebrew the sole official language. Discrimination against non-Jewish Israelis is widespread (compare the average prison term served by an Israeli Druze refusenik to that served by a Jewish Israeli refusenik). Look at the marginalisation of non-Jewish Israeli MPs. Welcomes everyone? As tourists, maybe. [added later] See also the Koenig Memorandum.[/added later]nitrodave said:
Thinking about it, there are so few places in the middle east that would allow a jew, or a gay or an atheist to settle and live happily.
"Would allow" will depend to some extent on the residence conditions of any citizen. AFAIK, there are significant Jewish populations in Syria, Iran, Iraq, Kurdistan, Morocco and Egypt. nitrodave said:
Until Palestine and many other muslim countries separate their religious ideology from the way their country is run, they will continue to be breeding grounds for hatred of anything that is not 'islamic'.
Many have done that (or are in the process of doing it): Lebanon, Syria, Kurdistan, Turkey (prior to Erdogan).nitrodave said:
As far as i am concerned, i've had enough of palestine, and pretty much the rest of the middle east. The rest of the world has moved on and they seem to be living hundreds of years in the past, simply because they use their muslim rules as the rules of their land. it's patheitc and there is no place for it in the modern world.
But it's a little Fascistic don't you think, for you to declare a timescale and an outcome? Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Friday 24th October 02:14
The Ultra Orthodox vs. The IDF: Israel's Other Re…: http://youtu.be/me4FqdrmVBs
Fingers,
Many have done that (or are in the process of doing it): Lebanon, Syria, Kurdistan, Turkey (prior to Erdogan).
_________________
Lebanon, Current situation perpetuates sectarianism with the shia terrorists Hezbollah controlling much of the government sectors - you pay a bribe you get to the head of the queue.
President must be Maronite Christian, Parliament speaker Shia and Prime Minister Sunni. Only through a public uprising did they finally kick the Syrians out of polical influence several years ago.
Syria's president Assad (an Alawite) may be married to a Sunni and he may have a token group of Sunni's in government positions however they wield zero power in the whole scheme of things. This is Assads way of saying his country in secular. It is ruled, as you know with more than an iron fist, as it was by his father before him Hafez.
Kurdistan has problems with Erdogan's Turkey as well as the government of Iraq the latter due to the fact that it has the deepest oil fields but I would not call their government secular in any way.
I think your view on Erdogan is probably similar to mine in that he is slowly making it more Islamic, more women are now wearing the veil and he is taking the country backwards and further away from being in any way secular.
He pissed off the Israeli's with that unscheduled Gaza supply ship and he's now trying to screw with the Cypriots (in their territorial waters) regarding oil & gas exploration.
Just my 2p.
Many have done that (or are in the process of doing it): Lebanon, Syria, Kurdistan, Turkey (prior to Erdogan).
_________________
Lebanon, Current situation perpetuates sectarianism with the shia terrorists Hezbollah controlling much of the government sectors - you pay a bribe you get to the head of the queue.
President must be Maronite Christian, Parliament speaker Shia and Prime Minister Sunni. Only through a public uprising did they finally kick the Syrians out of polical influence several years ago.
Syria's president Assad (an Alawite) may be married to a Sunni and he may have a token group of Sunni's in government positions however they wield zero power in the whole scheme of things. This is Assads way of saying his country in secular. It is ruled, as you know with more than an iron fist, as it was by his father before him Hafez.
Kurdistan has problems with Erdogan's Turkey as well as the government of Iraq the latter due to the fact that it has the deepest oil fields but I would not call their government secular in any way.
I think your view on Erdogan is probably similar to mine in that he is slowly making it more Islamic, more women are now wearing the veil and he is taking the country backwards and further away from being in any way secular.
He pissed off the Israeli's with that unscheduled Gaza supply ship and he's now trying to screw with the Cypriots (in their territorial waters) regarding oil & gas exploration.
Just my 2p.
Transmitter Man said:
Fingers,
Many have done that (or are in the process of doing it): Lebanon, Syria, Kurdistan, Turkey (prior to Erdogan).
_________________
Lebanon, Current situation perpetuates sectarianism with the shia terrorists Hezbollah controlling much of the government sectors - you pay a bribe you get to the head of the queue.
President must be Maronite Christian, Parliament speaker Shia and Prime Minister Sunni. Only through a public uprising did they finally kick the Syrians out of polical influence several years ago.
Syria's president Assad (an Alawite) may be married to a Sunni and he may have a token group of Sunni's in government positions however they wield zero power in the whole scheme of things. This is Assads way of saying his country in secular. It is ruled, as you know with more than an iron fist, as it was by his father before him Hafez.
Kurdistan has problems with Erdogan's Turkey as well as the government of Iraq the latter due to the fact that it has the deepest oil fields but I would not call their government secular in any way.
I think your view on Erdogan is probably similar to mine in that he is slowly making it more Islamic, more women are now wearing the veil and he is taking the country backwards and further away from being in any way secular.
He pissed off the Israeli's with that unscheduled Gaza supply ship and he's now trying to screw with the Cypriots (in their territorial waters) regarding oil & gas exploration.
Just my 2p.
And it is all the Israeli's fault! Murdering terrorist swine! Many have done that (or are in the process of doing it): Lebanon, Syria, Kurdistan, Turkey (prior to Erdogan).
_________________
Lebanon, Current situation perpetuates sectarianism with the shia terrorists Hezbollah controlling much of the government sectors - you pay a bribe you get to the head of the queue.
President must be Maronite Christian, Parliament speaker Shia and Prime Minister Sunni. Only through a public uprising did they finally kick the Syrians out of polical influence several years ago.
Syria's president Assad (an Alawite) may be married to a Sunni and he may have a token group of Sunni's in government positions however they wield zero power in the whole scheme of things. This is Assads way of saying his country in secular. It is ruled, as you know with more than an iron fist, as it was by his father before him Hafez.
Kurdistan has problems with Erdogan's Turkey as well as the government of Iraq the latter due to the fact that it has the deepest oil fields but I would not call their government secular in any way.
I think your view on Erdogan is probably similar to mine in that he is slowly making it more Islamic, more women are now wearing the veil and he is taking the country backwards and further away from being in any way secular.
He pissed off the Israeli's with that unscheduled Gaza supply ship and he's now trying to screw with the Cypriots (in their territorial waters) regarding oil & gas exploration.
Just my 2p.
Transmitter Man said:
Fingers,
Many have done that (or are in the process of doing it): Lebanon, Syria, Kurdistan, Turkey (prior to Erdogan).
_________________
Lebanon, Current situation perpetuates sectarianism with the shia terrorists Hezbollah controlling much of the government sectors - you pay a bribe you get to the head of the queue.
President must be Maronite Christian, Parliament speaker Shia and Prime Minister Sunni. Only through a public uprising did they finally kick the Syrians out of polical influence several years ago.
But it's getting there. Very slowly. Lebanon has always been deeply fractured, amazing that it manages to get anywhere. Hezbollah may have shot itself in the foot by fighting for Assad, rather than against the Israelis. Still, I think to dismiss them as a terrorist group is to miss both their significance and their real threat. You didn't mention the Druze, btw. Many have done that (or are in the process of doing it): Lebanon, Syria, Kurdistan, Turkey (prior to Erdogan).
_________________
Lebanon, Current situation perpetuates sectarianism with the shia terrorists Hezbollah controlling much of the government sectors - you pay a bribe you get to the head of the queue.
President must be Maronite Christian, Parliament speaker Shia and Prime Minister Sunni. Only through a public uprising did they finally kick the Syrians out of polical influence several years ago.
Transmitter Man said:
Syria's president Assad (an Alawite) may be married to a Sunni and he may have a token group of Sunni's in government positions however they wield zero power in the whole scheme of things. This is Assads way of saying his country in secular. It is ruled, as you know with more than an iron fist, as it was by his father before him Hafez.
Assad's wife was born and bought up in the UK (C of E schooling) of Sunni parents. I really doubt she's more than a nominal Muslim. Minorities were pretty well protected under Assad, although, to be sure, he's got to go.Transmitter Man said:
Kurdistan has problems with Erdogan's Turkey as well as the government of Iraq the latter due to the fact that it has the deepest oil fields but I would not call their government secular in any way.
Kurdistan is majority Muslim. PKK has been described as Maoist (Republicans out there, you didn't hear that). It's difficult to see religion playing any significant part in either Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian or Turkish PKK politics. Generally, they like the US, have a pretty significant Christian component, a highly politicised armed feminist wing, have been trained by the Germans, the Israelis and Sky Fairy knows who else. Transmitter Man said:
I think your view on Erdogan is probably similar to mine in that he is slowly making it more Islamic, more women are now wearing the veil and he is taking the country backwards and further away from being in any way secular.
He pissed off the Israeli's with that unscheduled Gaza supply ship and he's now trying to screw with the Cypriots (in their territorial waters) regarding oil & gas exploration.
Just my 2p.
I don't think Erdogan will last for long. He pissed off the Israeli's with that unscheduled Gaza supply ship and he's now trying to screw with the Cypriots (in their territorial waters) regarding oil & gas exploration.
Just my 2p.
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
And it is all the Israeli's fault! Murdering terrorist swine!
There are those that hold that view, but.......... I never expected that from you! 
Grumfutock said:
I also blame them for global warming, the death of JFK, X-factor and the lose of my car keys last week!
Netanyahu certainly has your car keys in his back pocket. One of the more successful Mossad operations. I'm surprised that MI5 didn't nab them and hold them hostage against signed copies of the IDF girls' racy photos. Transmitter Man]heRealFingers99 said:
Druze , Jumblatt will follow whoever is winning.
Ask any Lebanese.
He used to eat in Maroush here in Knightsbridge.
Phil
He's an old poker player, and quite a good one, too, but not one without all principles. He stuck with Arafat when it would have been politic to jump ship. Ask any Lebanese.
He used to eat in Maroush here in Knightsbridge.
Phil
One poll, two interpretations:
http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/124592/poll-show...
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/europe/1485...
http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/124592/poll-show...
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/europe/1485...
"Palestinians banned from Israeli-run bus lines"
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.62...
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.62...
More on daily life for non-Jews in Israel: On the Lawful Façade of Israel’s Discriminatory Policies in East Jerusalem.
And life inside Israel under the threat of attack http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/1...
And still Hamas stay silent! http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/1...
And still Hamas stay silent! http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/1...
Another American citizen killed, this time a 14yo shot in the head. Will Netanyahu condemn this?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/24/us-midea...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/24/us-midea...
If the attack was indeed ordered by Hamas. Of course it's disgusting. So are the attacks by the IDF on peaceful protesters, several resulting in deaths.
The explosive content of the rockets is apparently extracted from Israeli weaponry which failed to explode, Israel having significantly interfered with the work of UN de-miners.
The explosive content of the rockets is apparently extracted from Israeli weaponry which failed to explode, Israel having significantly interfered with the work of UN de-miners.
2nd non Israeli dies after Light Rail terror attack and still no word from Hamas, not even a condemnation!
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4584522,...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4584522,...
danoli777 said:
Another American citizen killed, this time a 14yo shot in the head. Will Netanyahu condemn this?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/24/us-midea...
How many more "non American citizens" are being killed in similar circumstances by the Israeli terrorists? Mind boggles.http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/24/us-midea...
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