Israeli

[Grumfutock]

zuby84 said:

danoli777 said:

Another American citizen killed, this time a 14yo shot in the head. Will Netanyahu condemn this?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/24/us-midea...

How many more "non American citizens" are being killed in similar circumstances by the Israeli terrorists? Mind boggles.

Case 1: Stand at a tram stop innocently waiting for a tram and get run over in a deliberate and callous attack.

Case 2: Throw petrol bombs at a police check point, thus risking killing or injuring people, and get shot.

I know which one is the terrorist act, I suggest you go and educate yourself!

[TheRealFingers99]

"Attacks by Israeli settlers in the occupied West Bank against members of the Palestinian population and their property are an extensive, long-term, and worsening phenomenon. According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, the number of settler attacks resulting in Palestinian casualties and property damage increased by over 144 percent in 2011, compared to 2009, with an average of eight incidents per week, and over 400 incidents throughout the year. Al-Haq has documented a significant increase in incidents of settler violence against the Palestinian population of the West Bank since 2011. In 2013, the report of the United Nations International Fact-Finding Mission on Settlements highlighted the failure of the Israeli authorities to enforce the law by investigating such incidents and taking measures against their perpetrators. The Fact-Finding Mission came to the "clear conclusion that there is institutionalised discrimination against the Palestinian people when it comes to addressing violence."

Acts of settler violence are intended, organised, and publicly represented to influence the political decisions of Israeli State authorities. For settlers, some acts of violence facilitate the transfer of Palestinians off their land to make way for the construction of settlements, in the expectation that the Israeli authorities will eventually formally recognise the settlement's establishment or expansion. Other acts of settler violence are intended to exert a toll on the Israeli government for any measure that negatively affects settler interests, as a form of retaliation against restrictions on settlement construction or evacuations of settlements. Settler groups, who often refer to such acts of violence as 'Price Tag' attacks, have mobilised a public campaign that advocates for the use of physical violence against the Palestinian civilian population and their property."

http://www.alhaq.org/publications/publications-ind...

(There's a downloadeable pdf if Grumfutock wants to follow his own sermon "..........I suggest you go and educate yourself!" Unlikely, as he's not prepared to watch a 30 minute film.)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-130282/Jew...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/aug/19/jewis...

[Grumfutock]

Yea because the Palestinians never attack the Israeli's or anyone else do they! No, no those poor, innocent people sit there, doing nobody any harm. And all the time the evil, murdering Zionist pigs kill them, for no good reason at all!!!!!


Talk sense man!

http://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-riot-in-...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.622854

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Hamas-I...

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

Yea because the Palestinians never attack the Israeli's or anyone else do they! No, no those poor, innocent people sit there, doing nobody any harm. And all the time the evil, murdering Zionist pigs kill them, for no good reason at all!!!!!


Talk sense man!

http://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-riot-in-...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.622854

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Hamas-I...

Oh dear, back to the tit for tat, chicken and egg.

But anyone with half a brain cell knows who started it.

If someone came to "my" country, expelled half of my people (Plan Dalet), forced the rest into smaller and smaller clumps of land, pinching the best (and the water resources) for themselves, I'd fight.

Oh, hang on, didn't the Zionists know that? "The bride is already married" and all that?

[Grumfutock]

You are right. If somebody came and invaded my land, enslaved my entire people and then sent us into exile I think that someday I would come back and try to get it back.

[Grumfutock]

TheRealFingers99 said:

Oh dear, back to the tit for tat, chicken and egg.

But anyone with half a brain cell knows who started it.

If someone came to "my" country, expelled half of my people (Plan Dalet), forced the rest into smaller and smaller clumps of land, pinching the best (and the water resources) for themselves, I'd fight.

Oh, hang on, didn't the Zionists know that? "The bride is already married" and all that?

And what do you expect with your constant and endlessly one sided attacks on Israel? Almost every day for 4 months you have launched these attacks, at this late stage I am not sure who you are trying to convince.

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

You are right. If somebody came and invaded my land, enslaved my entire people and then sent us into exile I think that someday I would come back and try to get it back.

Modern history (and archaeology) suggests that the Jews were not enslaved by the (ancient) Egyptians. (But is that what you meant?)

Anyway, it's plain daft. Would you suggest the Roma invade India? (Or maybe not, as there's no little book promising it to them [after the Day of Judgement].)

Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Monday 27th October 17:56

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

And what do you expect with your constant and endlessly one sided attacks on Israel? Almost every day for 4 months you have launched these attacks, at this late stage I am not sure who you are trying to convince.

I've condemned Hamas. In fact, on this very page. I've criticised their tactics as stupid and called them bunch of murdering bds. Yet you continue to post suggesting Palestine = Hamas. I even posted up a survey with two utterly different interpretations a day or so ago.

What I'd actually like from you, dear Grumfutock, is some research. I've pointed out some sources.

I'd also be pleased to hear your argument that Israel is actually working towards a solution that involves a viable Palestinian state.

If you can't keep up, you know where the door is.

[Grumfutock]

TheRealFingers99 said:

Grumfutock said:

And what do you expect with your constant and endlessly one sided attacks on Israel? Almost every day for 4 months you have launched these attacks, at this late stage I am not sure who you are trying to convince.

I've condemned Hamas. In fact, on this very page. I've criticised their tactics as stupid and called them bunch of murdering bds. Yet you continue to post suggesting Palestine = Hamas. I even posted up a survey with two utterly different interpretations a day or so ago.

What I'd actually like from you, dear Grumfutock, is some research. I've pointed out some sources.

I'd also be pleased to hear your argument that Israel is actually working towards a solution that involves a viable Palestinian state.

If you can't keep up, you know where the door is.

Oh come now, you and I both know that 99% of your posts are a link to some nasty little story against Israel.

For your part you continue to post suggesting Israel = Zionist = Igran = Lehi.

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

Oh come now, you and I both know that 99% of your posts are a link to some nasty little story against Israel.

For your part you continue to post suggesting Israel = Zionist = Igran = Lehi.

I'm the guy posting the references to the Israeli New Historians, one of whom was pretty much forced to move (career wise) to the UK (still returns, has a house in Israel) to the (Israeli) Refuseniks and to AAW. All the folk you choose to demean and ignore.



Israel is what it is. Currently Likud leads Israel, the Likud was formed by Begin, former head of Irgun. Netanyahu is his heir. Are you going to deny that?

This does not mean that there are not wonderful Israelis, Jewish ones and otherwise, simply that they've been pretty much marginalised.

I can only post "nasty little stories" (to my mind, they're the "real" picture of the current situation, but, hey) while there are "nasty little stories" to post.

Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Monday 27th October 16:52

[Grumfutock]

And Hamas is founded by Muslim Brotherhood (motto: "God is our objective; the Qur'an is the Constitution; the Prophet is our leader; jihad is our way; death for the sake of God is our wish"). But I didn't think we were doing history?

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

And Hamas is founded by Muslim Brotherhood (motto: "God is our objective; the Qur'an is the Constitution; the Prophet is our leader; jihad is our way; death for the sake of God is our wish").

Would that be the Muslim Brotherhood which were recently found not to be a terrorist group? Still, I'm no Hamas fan boy. I seek to understand them, nothing more.

Grumfutock said:

But I didn't think we were doing history?

Grumfutock said:

You are right. If somebody came and invaded my land, enslaved my entire people and then sent us into exile I think that someday I would come back and try to get it back.

I'm still not sure if this is a reference to the Israelites (in which case it's fantasy attempting to be history) or to the Palestinians (in which case it's -- almost -- history). You've been watching too many Charlton Heston movies. Those nice Israeli boys at Haaretz think you're watching too many Charlton Heston movies, too. Oy vey!

Is the worm a wiggling or are you going to point me to Likud's sincere and honest attempts to create a viable Palestinian state, control the settlers, etc.?

Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Monday 27th October 18:38

Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Tuesday 28th October 02:43

[Lost soul]

TheRealFingers99 said:

Grumfutock said:

Yea because the Palestinians never attack the Israeli's or anyone else do they! No, no those poor, innocent people sit there, doing nobody any harm. And all the time the evil, murdering Zionist pigs kill them, for no good reason at all!!!!!


Talk sense man!

http://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-riot-in-...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.622854

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Hamas-I...

Oh dear, back to the tit for tat, chicken and egg.

Yes you are aren't you

[TheRealFingers99]

Lost soul said:

Yes you are aren't you

Another meaningful, content filled, comment from PH's resident moron. The resident sociopath will be along soon (if his mum lets him play with the pooter).

[Lost soul]

TheRealFingers99 said:

Lost soul said:

Yes you are aren't you

Another meaningful, content filled, comment from PH's resident moron. The resident sociopath will be along soon (if his mum lets him play with the pooter).

You really are such a wker

[TheRealFingers99]

Lost soul said:

You really are such a wker

But at least I have something to wk with.

In the meantime, I'm waiting for your leader to point me to Likud's sincere and honest attempts to create a viable Palestinian state, control the settlers, etc.?

In the absence of meaningful comment from any of the 3 stooges, I'm forced to conclude that there is none.

[Countdown]

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/10/27/p...

[Slaav]

Chaps - this thead is actually getting depressing now.

Is it fair to say that Israel simply doesn't want a two state solution and the longer the ongoing conflict continues, the better chance of a two state solution that suits them and the boundaries might creep?

Is it also fair to say that Hammas dont want any kind of solution or their whole purpose disolves?

Palestine on the other hand want a solution. And by definition, a solution at limited worth or gain but please stop the violence? Albeit they wont condemn Hammas! A slight flaw in their argument?

Simply, do Israel and their leaders actually want peace on reasonable terms? Or on their own terms or there is no deal on the table?

Once again, I am trying to establish a binary principal

[TheRealFingers99]

I've pretty much given up on the two state solution.

The US seem to think that Netanyahu has, too.

Obama Official Calls Israeli Prime Minister A ‘Chickens**t’ (Also reported in Haaretz, etc.)

But Bill Clinton has said that Netanyahu will move, if he's pushed really, really hard. Maybe worsening US/EU/Israeli relations might actually improve the prospects for peace.

[Grumfutock]

TheRealFingers99 said:

I'm still not sure if this is a reference to the Israelites (in which case it's fantasy attempting to be history) or to the Palestinians (in which case it's -- almost -- history). You've been watching too many Charlton Heston movies. Those nice Israeli boys at Haaretz think you're watching too many Charlton Heston movies, too. Oy vey!

Is the worm a wiggling or are you going to point me to Likud's sincere and honest attempts to create a viable Palestinian state, control the settlers, etc.?

Oh dear, you seem to be getting confused between biblical tales, Hollywood and real history. I am talking about the Kingdom of Judah, kingdom of Israel and the Assyrians.

The fact that the history is disputed is only as to the size of the kingdom. The is no doubt that Israelite lived as a vassal of the Assyrians.

Muslim Brotherhood not a terrorist group? REALLY???? Oh ok I see what your trying to do. OK their activities in the UK by a few members that moved to here have been cleared, by the UK in the UK. Funny though that to avoid the investigation they moved their HQ to Austria isn't it! That of course leaves the main Muslim Brotherhood and doesn't take into account any other nations opinions. I don't think Egypt shares our view, nor Russia, nor Qatar, nor Saudi, nor UAE, nor Syria, nor Israel.

You sound like the dead pigeon sketch in Black Adder sketch "The Muslim Brotherhood didn't pack this vehicle with explosives and they did not drive it into that check point. They definitely did not blow up 30 policeman."

Muslim Brotherhood not being terrorists is as likely as Hamas winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

And as for the Likud comment, once again I will say to you why should they??? Why should Israel offer viable Palestinian state when those same Palestinians have the sole objective of destroying Israel? Why would anyone give peace or power to their enemy that has hatred, violence and bigotry engraved into their hearts?

No nation on earth would do as you say and any ideas of this sort belong in some 1960's hippy camp not in the real world of international politics.