Israeli

[TheRealFingers99]

Mrr T said:

So now you say a film includes a voice recording of the attach. I have checked and I cannot see this any where else on the web, despite numerous reports,enquires into the attach.

So I suggest the recording in the movie is fiction.

So now you say a film includes a voice recording of the attack.

I have checked and I cannot see this any where else on the web, despite numerous reports,enquires into the attach.

The only transcript is the one I referred to and is not of the attach.

If you can find I link which proves the recording are authenticated I will of cause change my position but at the moment I suggest the recording in the movie is fiction.

What's this:

Mrr T said:

So now you say a film includes a voice recording of the attach.

Eh? Have I ever said anything else?

As I say, watch the film. Make up your own mind. I use it (as I've said repeatedly) only as an example of why (and how) history must adapt to new revelations.

For Ahron Jay Cristol see here. Seems the man is both an ardent Zionist and a charlatan.

Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Tuesday 4th November 17:11

Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Tuesday 4th November 17:15

[Grumfutock]

zuby84 said:

I'll give Grum this much that he has managed to seemingly excellently defend his corner through illogical and straw man like arguments.

Kind of reminds me of something...

And if in doubt resort to abuse and insult like a petulant child. Same old rubbish.

[dudleybloke]

Its funny how the Zionists love to spout what's in their religious text with regards to the ownership of Israel but they don't like Gentiles reading what's in the Talmud.

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

And if in doubt resort to abuse and insult like a petulant child. Same old rubbish.

Just like the kiddie fiddling and the nuking of the West Bank and the "rules of history" and the claim that me and Countdown are in bed with Hamas, eh? For God's sake man, I'm much closer politically to "Uncle Apo" than Mashaal.

It may work in the NAAFI bar, but it won't work outside.

[zuby84]

Grumfutock said:

And if in doubt resort to abuse and insult like a petulant child. Same old rubbish.

Nope, just that your main argument seems to be:

"Hamas do it/did it first, so Israel should also be allowed to do it" and then claiming that anyone who has concerns on what Israel is doing is anti-Semetic and furthermore support Hamas terrorist attacks. Throughout this thread; many people have asked you to show where anyone here has ever supported Hamas terrorist attacks and you have not been able to show any evidence of this; yet you still keep on going with your flawed narrative because it's the only angle you have.

You are one of the only people condoning violent atrocities on this thread. You can kick, scream and lie all you want, but no one is condoning Hamas terrorist atrocities here.

..... and deflect.....

[AndStilliRise]

zuby84 said:

Grumfutock said:

And if in doubt resort to abuse and insult like a petulant child. Same old rubbish.

Nope, just that your main argument seems to be:

"Hamas do it/did it first, so Israel should also be allowed to do it" and then claiming that anyone who has concerns on what Israel is doing is anti-Semetic and furthermore support Hamas terrorist attacks. Throughout this thread; many people have asked you to show where anyone here has ever supported Hamas terrorist attacks and you have not been able to show any evidence of this; yet you still keep on going with your flawed narrative because it's the only angle you have.

You are one of the only people condoning violent atrocities on this thread. You can kick, scream and lie all you want, but no one is condoning Hamas terrorist atrocities here.

..... and deflect.....

Agreed.

[Grumfutock]

TheRealFingers99 said:

Grumfutock said:

And if in doubt resort to abuse and insult like a petulant child. Same old rubbish.

Just like the kiddie fiddling and the nuking of the West Bank and the "rules of history" and the claim that me and Countdown are in bed with Hamas, eh? For God's sake man, I'm much closer politically to "Uncle Apo" than Mashaal.

It may work in the NAAFI bar, but it won't work outside.

So rules of history and nukes are name calling and insults? Get real! That might work in the mosque but not here!

Da da da da da it shatman! Well you seem to think of yourself as some bizarre internet super hero. Right of wrongs! Teller of truths! Talker of bkss!

Well done.

[Grumfutock]

zuby84 said:

Nope, just that your main argument seems to be:

"Hamas do it/did it first, so Israel should also be allowed to do it" and then claiming that anyone who has concerns on what Israel is doing is anti-Semetic and furthermore support Hamas terrorist attacks. Throughout this thread; many people have asked you to show where anyone here has ever supported Hamas terrorist attacks and you have not been able to show any evidence of this; yet you still keep on going with your flawed narrative because it's the only angle you have.

You are one of the only people condoning violent atrocities on this thread. You can kick, scream and lie all you want, but no one is condoning Hamas terrorist atrocities here.

..... and deflect.....

No, I am one of the only people on this thread pointing out that Israel are not the font of all evil in the area. That maybe, JUST maybe, if terrorists stop blowing up Israeli's, stop firing rockets at them and stop tunnelling then perhaps Israel will respond. Continue the terrorism then why oh why would you be surprised if the evil Zionist bullies drop a bomb on your house.

Real simple really but I doubt if you can follow it.

[Grumfutock]

AndStilliRise said:

zuby84 said:

Grumfutock said:

And if in doubt resort to abuse and insult like a petulant child. Same old rubbish.

Nope, just that your main argument seems to be:

"Hamas do it/did it first, so Israel should also be allowed to do it" and then claiming that anyone who has concerns on what Israel is doing is anti-Semetic and furthermore support Hamas terrorist attacks. Throughout this thread; many people have asked you to show where anyone here has ever supported Hamas terrorist attacks and you have not been able to show any evidence of this; yet you still keep on going with your flawed narrative because it's the only angle you have.

You are one of the only people condoning violent atrocities on this thread. You can kick, scream and lie all you want, but no one is condoning Hamas terrorist atrocities here.

..... and deflect.....

Agreed.

Oh you agree and yet I have yet to see you write one single line of condemnation of the said Hamas terrorist atrocities here!! How obvious and typical of the PC tree hugging brigade. Jump on the band wagon and enjoy your ride to doom.

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

So rules of history and nukes are name calling and insults?

They're fake arguments and bluster. And the kiddy fiddling? And Hamas?

Grumfutock said:

That might work in the mosque but not here!

I've yet to set foot in a Mosque. Get real yourself! I'm an atheist!

Grumfutock said:

Well done.

Thank you!

[Grumfutock]

TheRealFingers99 said:

Grumfutock said:

So rules of history and nukes are name calling and insults?

TheRealFingers99 said:

They're fake arguments and bluster. And the kiddy fiddling? And Hamas?

Kiddie fiddler was nothing to do with you was it?????? Why do you keep referring to it?

Hamas? Hell yes! You are the biggest pro Hamas person I have ever come across. You deny it from time to time but your endless pro Hamas rhetoric and rabid hatred of Israel really gives it away.

Grumfutock said:

That might work in the mosque but not here!

TheRealFingers99 said:

I've yet to set foot in a Mosque. Get real yourself! I'm an atheist!

Sorry but I don't believe you.

Grumfutock said:

Well done.

TheRealFingers99 said:

Thank you!

Your very welcome.

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

No, I am one of the only people on this thread pointing out that Israel are not the font of all evil in the area. That maybe, JUST maybe, if terrorists stop blowing up Israeli's, stop firing rockets at them and stop tunnelling then perhaps Israel will respond. Continue the terrorism then why oh why would you be surprised if the evil Zionist bullies drop a bomb on your house.

Real simple really but I doubt if you can follow it.

I follow it. Hamas tactics are wrong. But resistance to Israeli occupation, to a racist state founded and implemented by terrorists, is entirely justifiable.

I ask you what you'd do were you a Palestinian? Roll over and suck it up while the occupiers grabbed more ground?

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

TheRealFingers99 said:

Grumfutock said:

So rules of history and nukes are name calling and insults?

TheRealFingers99 said:

They're fake arguments and bluster. And the kiddy fiddling? And Hamas?

Grumfutock said:

Kiddie fiddler was nothing to do with you was it?????? Why do you keep referring to it?

It has everything to do with your style of argument.

Grumfutock said:

Hamas? Hell yes! You are the biggest pro Hamas person I have ever come across. You deny it from time to time but your endless pro Hamas rhetoric and rabid hatred of Israel really gives it away.

So, this atheist libertarian socialist calls the authoritarian, sectarian Hamas a bunch of murdering bds and I'm on their side?

Seems like, to you, anyone who argues against Zionism = anti-Israeli = Anti Semite = pro Hamas = pro ISIS = Muslim = Devil Incarnate. Does that sum it up?

Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Tuesday 4th November 18:27

[Grumfutock]

TheRealFingers99 said:

I follow it. Hamas tactics are wrong. But resistance to Israeli occupation, to a racist state founded and implemented by terrorists, is entirely justifiable.

I ask you what you'd do were you a Palestinian? Roll over and suck it up while the occupiers grabbed more ground?

Changed your name or are you and zuby the same person? Fairly sure that wasn't a question or statement for you.

However I have no idea what the terrorist should do, I am not one, I don't live there and couldn't, frankly, give a fk. All I know is that if you fire rockets and blow people up then expect a state, any state, to retaliate with it's full military arsenal. As I say, real simple.

Should England give NI, Wales and Scotland independence? Should I abandon the Falklands? Pull out of the Channel Islands? Cease all input to the Isle of Man? Dissolve the Commonwealth? All of these exist because of occupation, land grabs and racism!!!

[Grumfutock]

Nope, but a man that rabidly and endlessly attacks Israel whilst barely noticing terrorism does equal a supporter of Hamas.

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

Changed your name or are you and zuby the same person? Fairly sure that wasn't a question or statement for you.

It's a public forum, not a private conversation.

Grumfutock said:

However I have no idea what the terrorist should do, I am not one, I don't live there and couldn't, frankly, give a fk. All I know is that if you fire rockets and blow people up then expect a state, any state, to retaliate with it's full military arsenal. As I say, real simple.

OK, imagine that you're a Belgian. You've been invaded by Germany. It's WW2. (This, after all, is the example used by Avram Shalom, well known Hamas supporter and etc.) What do you do?

Grumfutock said:

Should England give NI, Wales and Scotland independence? Should I abandon the Falklands? Pull out of the Channel Islands? Cease all input to the Isle of Man? Dissolve the Commonwealth? All of these exist because of occupation, land grabs and racism!!!

More bluster and horsest.

Unlike Israel, the UK allows equal rights to the Scots, Welsh, NI etc. populations. Unlike Israel, it grants citizenship to the inhabitants of those parts of the UK. Unlike Israel, it allows them to vote in the same assembly.

In so far as the Commonwealth represented an oppressive empire, it has been dissolved. Countries are free to leave.

I can't see racism having anything to do with the Falklands? Surely it's up to the people living there to decide to become part of Argentina or the UK? Apply the same logic to Palestine?

Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Tuesday 4th November 20:19

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

Nope, but a man that rabidly and endlessly attacks Israel whilst barely noticing terrorism does equal a supporter of Hamas.

Whose terrorism? The terrorism of Hamas which I condemn, or the terrorism of Israel, which you don't acknowledge?

[zuby84]

I think the main issue here is that Grumfutock doesn't really know how to draw logical conclusions from parallels that he seems to be using which can get quite irritating as arguments which aren't based on sound logic can start to unravel and hence desperation kicks in. This leads to people comparing apples to oranges when it suits their argument and discounting the comparison of apples to apples when it doesn't suit them.

Grumfutock said:

No, I am one of the only people on this thread pointing out that Israel are not the font of all evil in the area. That maybe, JUST maybe, if terrorists stop blowing up Israeli's, stop firing rockets at them and stop tunnelling then perhaps Israel will respond. Continue the terrorism then why oh why would you be surprised if the evil Zionist bullies drop a bomb on your house.

Here's a mind exercise for Grumfutock:

No, I am one of the only people on this thread pointing out that Hamas are not the font of all evil in the area. That maybe, JUST maybe, if Israel stop blowing up Palestinians, stop dropping bombs on them and stop stealing yet more Palestinian land then perhaps Hamas will respond. Continue the terrorism then why oh why would you be surprised if the evil Hamas terrorists fight back and build tunnels to try and fight back.


You see, Grumfutock's argument is really no more well thought out than "do X and Y may happen." I'm just surprised at how he's kept it up for so long. What I think will happen if Grumfutock's wishes came true:

Grumfutock said:

No, I am one of the only people on this thread pointing out that Israel are not the font of all evil in the area. That maybe, JUST maybe, if terrorists stop blowing up Israeli's, stop firing rockets at them and stop tunnelling then perhaps Israel will respond will continue to easily steal more land and further victimise the Palestinians without the eyes of the International community on them. Continue the terrorism then why oh why would you be surprised if the evil Zionist bullies drop a bomb on your house.

[Grumfutock]

[TheRealFingers99]

The heights of intellect have been conquered!

More to the point, Breaking the Silence (ex Israeli IDF) have released downloadable pdf's of some of the testimonies: http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/p...

To my mind they speak eloquently of what it is like to be a soldier as part of an occupying army.