Discussion
Grumfutock said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
Equally a huge leap to assert that I am anti semite!
Not so huge: people who believe that bacon is dirty are stupid. Your words. Any Jew would find that more than a little insulting. Grumfutock said:
You know and I know it wasn't anti sematic, it was used to make a point, as was the earth is flat bit, so why go down this route? And I am called the troll!
Because it was so damn crass! 
ICC set to declare attack on Turkish aid ship a 'war crime'
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/europe/1510...
Israel accused of war crimes in Gaza by Amnesty International
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/i...
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/europe/1510...
Israel accused of war crimes in Gaza by Amnesty International
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/i...
TheRealFingers99 said:
Will Self reviews How I Stopped Being a Jew by Shlomo Sand and Unchosen: The Memoirs of a Philo-Semite by Julie Burchill here.
Could Grumfutock be Julie Birchill in drag?
If you can stick with this it is actually quite a good read. The amsuing piece at the end for ease:Could Grumfutock be Julie Birchill in drag?
"But Burchill’s most egregious fault is her insistence that her enemies are all pals together. Time and again in this threadbare text she equates any criticism of the Israeli state with support for Hamas, Hezbollah and other organisations that commit terrorist acts in the name of Palestine – this is wrong, deeply unhelpful, and an attitude that, in my view, could lead ultimately to the destruction of Israel.
About 12 years ago I profiled Burchill for the Independent on Sunday. I wrote then that she presented the bizarre spectacle of an intelligent woman who had spent her entire adult life making herself more stupid; this process has now reached its inevitable conclusion, and she has become to all intents and purposes moronic. If I were still a Jew I might have cause to reject her overtures, but thankfully, having resigned from the club, I’m no longer in any danger of being bothered by this particular barroom bore."
Grumfutock said:
An American General praising the IDF. Well, booger me. Who'd have thought it? Whatever next, "White Phosphorous Is Good for your Skin" says IDF surgeon in Chief?
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
An American General praising the IDF. Well, booger me. Who'd have thought it? Whatever next, "White Phosphorous Is Good for your Skin" says IDF surgeon in Chief?
WHilst I may agree with you, it is a different view point and should be treated as such surely?
P
OK.
More tellingly, surprisingly, perhaps: "The Israeli army chief said that the military wing of Hamas militant group, the al-Qassam brigades, were "courageous people" in the fight against the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during Operation Protective Edge in the Gaza Strip".
I note in passing that none of the Kurdish forces (up against opposition that makes Hamas look like a bunch of vegan peacenicks) have used white phosphorous, flechettes, or human shields.
More tellingly, surprisingly, perhaps: "The Israeli army chief said that the military wing of Hamas militant group, the al-Qassam brigades, were "courageous people" in the fight against the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during Operation Protective Edge in the Gaza Strip".
I note in passing that none of the Kurdish forces (up against opposition that makes Hamas look like a bunch of vegan peacenicks) have used white phosphorous, flechettes, or human shields.
TheRealFingers99 said:
OK.
More tellingly, surprisingly, perhaps: "The Israeli army chief said that the military wing of Hamas militant group, the al-Qassam brigades, were "courageous people" in the fight against the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during Operation Protective Edge in the Gaza Strip".
I note in passing that none of the Kurdish forces (up against opposition that makes Hamas look like a bunch of vegan peacenicks) have used white phosphorous, flechettes, or human shields.
'Fingers, do you mind me asking you what you are actually trying to achieve on this thread?More tellingly, surprisingly, perhaps: "The Israeli army chief said that the military wing of Hamas militant group, the al-Qassam brigades, were "courageous people" in the fight against the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during Operation Protective Edge in the Gaza Strip".
I note in passing that none of the Kurdish forces (up against opposition that makes Hamas look like a bunch of vegan peacenicks) have used white phosphorous, flechettes, or human shields.
Personally, I would dearly love to see both sides less entrenched in their views. More importantly, my own view is that the very first move now needs to be on Israel's part! I am not convinced this will happen though.
It does seem that Grum is not the only one that sticks to his hardened position in that when there is any prospect at all of rockets, acts of terrorism or violence in any shape or form, then Israel will continue building settlements and 'ghetto-ing' the imprisoned Palestinian people. This act of land grab and imprisonment means that there is absolutely NO HOPE WHATSOEVER of Hamas and the odd radical ceasing being violent and rebelling against the oppression.
And around we go some more.
The only way that I can see this cycle changing is if Israel make the first move and actually withdraw from some of the settlements and release some of the blockades and sanctions etc. If they were strong enough to do this, they could easily caveat it with 'Any terrorism or violence and we go back to our old ways' or similar?
I hoped that this thread would come to that sort of conclusion as that is the only one I see working or at least giving realistic breathing space for true peace talks/process.
If hard nosed Israelis from the Far Right or any of the Zionists would concede any ground in this area, there may be hope!
If (eg - and sorry to use you as an example) Grum gave even the smallest inch in this way, then you may feel less inclined to drum your side of the argument so loudly?
I hasten to add or reiterate that I would definitely fall on your ('fingers) side of the fence in this argument - which is probably obvious - but at times, it does feel as though there really is a personal vendetta now between you and Grum? And I don't think that adds to the thread.
In summary; Grum, do you see any way or even want peace on any terms other than the most extreme Right Wing/Zionist terms? Would you be prepared to countenance some withdrawal on Israel's side/point of viw? If the answer to this last question is no, then show over I fear?
Fingers, would a small movement in grum's position be a good enough starting point for you? Or would you also want a seismic shift before you would relax a little?
Do please bear in mind that the above really is in no way meant to offend or stick myself squarely back into the fight here or even join in properly but I just feel there has to be hope? Doesn't there?
We're not going to make a peace settlement (in Palestine) here!
That being the case, even if Grum were to soften his position, it would make no difference.
Grum is, although an opponent here, largely irrelevant in the wider scheme of things, although his views may have some propaganda value for supporters of the status quo. I am equally irrelevant, but support a radical change.
For the sake of argument, were all the Palestinian groups to disarm, what would happen? What would Grum propose?
That being the case, even if Grum were to soften his position, it would make no difference.
Grum is, although an opponent here, largely irrelevant in the wider scheme of things, although his views may have some propaganda value for supporters of the status quo. I am equally irrelevant, but support a radical change.
For the sake of argument, were all the Palestinian groups to disarm, what would happen? What would Grum propose?
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Friday 7th November 18:22
TheRealFingers99 said:
OK.
More tellingly, surprisingly, perhaps: "The Israeli army chief said that the military wing of Hamas militant group, the al-Qassam brigades, were "courageous people" in the fight against the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during Operation Protective Edge in the Gaza Strip".
I note in passing that none of the Kurdish forces (up against opposition that makes Hamas look like a bunch of vegan peacenicks) have used white phosphorous, flechettes, or human shields.
Yes ISIS just murder prisoners and commit all round genocide. Hamas on the other hand just....oh no wait, they do kill prisoners and want to commit genocide.More tellingly, surprisingly, perhaps: "The Israeli army chief said that the military wing of Hamas militant group, the al-Qassam brigades, were "courageous people" in the fight against the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during Operation Protective Edge in the Gaza Strip".
I note in passing that none of the Kurdish forces (up against opposition that makes Hamas look like a bunch of vegan peacenicks) have used white phosphorous, flechettes, or human shields.
Oh and just for your info, every army in the world uses WP. It is in flares and is used to mark targets. Flechettes are used by nearly every army and human shields, well Hamas do that every single day!
TheRealFingers99 said:
We're not going to make a peace settlement (in Palestine) here!
That being the case, even if Grum were to soften his position, it would make no difference.
Grum is, although an opponent here, largely irrelevant in the wider scheme of things, although his views may have some propaganda value for supporters of the status quo. I am equally irrelevant, but support a radical change.
For the sake of argument, were all the Palestinian groups to disarm, what would happen? What would Grum propose?
No you just support radicals!That being the case, even if Grum were to soften his position, it would make no difference.
Grum is, although an opponent here, largely irrelevant in the wider scheme of things, although his views may have some propaganda value for supporters of the status quo. I am equally irrelevant, but support a radical change.
For the sake of argument, were all the Palestinian groups to disarm, what would happen? What would Grum propose?
Grumfutock said:
Yes ISIS just murder prisoners and commit all round genocide. Hamas on the other hand just....oh no wait, they do kill prisoners and want to commit genocide.
Oh and just for your info, every army in the world uses WP. It is in flares and is used to mark targets. Flechettes are used by nearly every army and human shields, well Hamas do that every single day!
ISIS commit genocide, ethnic cleansing, torture, rape, mutilation, the killing of prisoners and the selling of women as slaves. Apart from the last one, all crimes committed by the nice Zionists during the Nakba and the 48 war. Oh and just for your info, every army in the world uses WP. It is in flares and is used to mark targets. Flechettes are used by nearly every army and human shields, well Hamas do that every single day!
The IDF use human shields on a regular basis in Gaza -- it's well documented by Breaking the Silence and not simply a matter of fighting in one of the most densely populated areas of the world. The IDF have used white phosphorous in broad daylight in heavily populated areas -- including one attack on a UN facility. They have no need whatsoever with GPS to mark targets with it: they have far more accurate methods.
TheRealFingers99 said:
For the sake of argument, were all the Palestinian groups to disarm, what would happen? What would Grum propose?
Answer the question! Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Friday 7th November 19:33
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