Discussion
It's a big mess.
But the Rojava seems to show that a homeland is possible and that ethnic cleansing isn't necessary. The hatred existing between Kurds, Assyrians and Arabs isn't/wasn't of a different order to that between Jews and Palestinians.
Still, while there's life, there's hope. Somewhere a few pages ago I posted a link to organisations -- Palestinian and Israeli -- trying to work for peace.
But the Rojava seems to show that a homeland is possible and that ethnic cleansing isn't necessary. The hatred existing between Kurds, Assyrians and Arabs isn't/wasn't of a different order to that between Jews and Palestinians.
Still, while there's life, there's hope. Somewhere a few pages ago I posted a link to organisations -- Palestinian and Israeli -- trying to work for peace.
TheRealFingers99 said:
Mermaid said:
So why don't the Palestinians listen to people like you?
A fair few do. They get shot by Israelis. See the film 5 Broken Cameras. There are torrents out there, so it'll cost you just 90 minutes of your time. A delegation of counsellors from somewhere in the NE went out there recently and joined in the regular protests -- 2 of them were injured.
Keep at it, keep at it, keep at it, use media. Cheaper in the long run. The old anti-biotic is not working.
TheRealFingers99 said:
‘I just adore the JEWS. They can LITERALLY do no wrong in my book’
John Crace's gentle condensation of Julie Birchill's book. Just for fun.
John Crace's gentle condensation of Julie Birchill's book. Just for fun.
Israel bans Norwegian doctor Mads Gilbert from Gaza
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-300545...
Seems he was bringing on too much bad press for Israel. Disgraceful from a so called democracy. Imagine how innocent Palestinians get treated if Israel can justify this. "Oh we had to kill your 6 year old son Mrs Mohammed, it was a security risk you know."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-300545...
Seems he was bringing on too much bad press for Israel. Disgraceful from a so called democracy. Imagine how innocent Palestinians get treated if Israel can justify this. "Oh we had to kill your 6 year old son Mrs Mohammed, it was a security risk you know."
Mermaid said:
Seen the film, thank you.
Keep at it, keep at it, keep at it, use media. Cheaper in the long run. The old anti-biotic is not working.
So, you saw peaceful demonstrations broken up by Israeli police. And you enjoyed it? Keep at it, keep at it, keep at it, use media. Cheaper in the long run. The old anti-biotic is not working.
You probably enjoyed seeing the use of white phosphorous on a UN school as well. Good shots in Tears of Gaza.
Use the Media? What do you think the Zionists have been doing since the end of WW2? What do you think their budget is?
TheRealFingers99 said:
Mermaid said:
Seen the film, thank you.
Keep at it, keep at it, keep at it, use media. Cheaper in the long run. The old anti-biotic is not working.
So, you saw peaceful demonstrations broken up by Israeli police. And you enjoyed it? Keep at it, keep at it, keep at it, use media. Cheaper in the long run. The old anti-biotic is not working.
You probably enjoyed seeing the use of white phosphorous on a UN school as well. Good shots in Tears of Gaza.
Use the Media? What do you think the Zionists have been doing since the end of WW2? What do you think their budget is?
Mermaid said:
You no longer need a big budget to publicise a peace march. do it again, and again and again. Gandhi managed it, MLK managed it, what's the harm with these folk trying it - they cannot lose more, can they?
You're breaking up. There must be a solar flare interfering with communications from Mars. The march -- the protest -- in the village (Bil'in) filmed in 5 Broken Cameras -- where peaceful demonstrators are regularly tear gassed, "rubber" bulleted (the rubber bullets the Israelis use are actually ball bearings with a thin rubber coating, well capable of killing) and stun grenaded is a regular event -- generally weekly. The very event where Palistinian, Israeli, and Geordie demonstrators have been killed and injured.
It's not propaganda. It is publicised. It takes real bottle to turn up. AAW and folk from Breaking the Silence regularly attend (as do Israeli agents disguised as Palestinians), all kinds of Israelis, and Palestinians.
jerusalempost said:
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ordered the demolition of the homes of the two terrorists who carried out Tuesday's attack in Har Nof, the most significant operational step taken in the immediate aftermath of the murders.
The directive came at an emergency security consultation Netanyahu convened in his office with Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon, Public Security Minister Yitzhak Aharonovitch, Israel Security Agency head Yoram Cohen, Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat and other top security officials.
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Netanyahu-orders-demolition-of-terrorists-homes-after-synagogue-attack-382155The directive came at an emergency security consultation Netanyahu convened in his office with Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon, Public Security Minister Yitzhak Aharonovitch, Israel Security Agency head Yoram Cohen, Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat and other top security officials.
This is an interesting albeit controversial move - I don't think this is just about revenge but more so a deterrent to make future terrorists think twice before carrying out attacks on Israelis. That said I hope the same principle applies the next time a Bat Ayin extremist or their ilk are caught engaging in terrorism.
TheRealFingers99 said:
The march -- the protest -- in the village (Bil'in) filmed in 5 Broken Cameras -- where peaceful demonstrators are regularly tear gassed, "rubber" bulleted (the rubber bullets the Israelis use are actually ball bearings with a thin rubber coating, well capable of killing) and stun grenaded is a regular event -- generally weekly. The very event where Palistinian, Israeli, and Geordie demonstrators have been killed and injured.
It's not propaganda. It is publicised. It takes real bottle to turn up. AAW and folk from Breaking the Silence regularly attend (as do Israeli agents disguised as Palestinians), all kinds of Israelis, and Palestinians.
That's a Jan 2013 link. Every week you say? Must try harder, or change your tactics. What would you advise them to do?It's not propaganda. It is publicised. It takes real bottle to turn up. AAW and folk from Breaking the Silence regularly attend (as do Israeli agents disguised as Palestinians), all kinds of Israelis, and Palestinians.
Mermaid said:
That's a Jan 2013 link. Every week you say? Must try harder, or change your tactics. What would you advise them to do?
It's difficult to communicate in writing with someone who doesn't take the trouble to read. From the link: "The weekly Friday demonstrations in Bil’in began in February 2005." It starts on the end of the first line of the text, FFS! Try harder yourself!
The demonstrations have been going on for nearly 10 years, every week! Everyone likely to attend knows exactly where it is, when it is.
TheRealFingers99 said:
Mermaid said:
That's a Jan 2013 link. Every week you say? Must try harder, or change your tactics. What would you advise them to do?
It's difficult to communicate in writing with someone who doesn't take the trouble to read. From the link: "The weekly Friday demonstrations in Bil’in began in February 2005." It starts on the end of the first line of the text, FFS! Try harder yourself!
The demonstrations have been going on for nearly 10 years, every week! Everyone likely to attend knows exactly where it is, when it is.
Mermaid said:
So how many attend?
You said you'd seen the film. Count 'em! I think the film mentions the numbers. I'd guess -- nothing more, 2 or 3 hundred on regular occasions, a thousand or so on anniversaries, etc.
Note that that demonstration isn't the only regular one -- the B'Tselem site mentions 6 more regular demonstations and, of course, there are others.
TheRealFingers99 said:
You said you'd seen the film. Count 'em!
I think the film mentions the numbers. I'd guess -- nothing more, 2 or 3 hundred on regular occasions, a thousand or so on anniversaries, etc.
Note that that demonstration isn't the only regular one -- the B'Tselem site mentions 6 more regular demonstations and, of course, there are others.
That's a tiny number, don't you think.I think the film mentions the numbers. I'd guess -- nothing more, 2 or 3 hundred on regular occasions, a thousand or so on anniversaries, etc.
Note that that demonstration isn't the only regular one -- the B'Tselem site mentions 6 more regular demonstations and, of course, there are others.
Links for the other demonstrations, I expect you have them.
Mermaid said:
That's a tiny number, don't you think.
I'd love them to be bigger, even if only to increase the IDF's expenditure on tear gas! But anyone who tries to organise demonstrations -- especially recurring ones and in the face of evil b
dy on both sides -- knows how difficult it is. And then, consider just how difficult it is getting from A to B in the West Bank as a Palestinian, let alone from Gaza to the West Bank. There's a tragic sense in which the failure of demonstrations to achieve much with the occupying power can be seen as leading to the more violent protests.
If, as an ex-boss of Shin Bet has said, the IDF can be seen as a parallel of the German Army in Belgium (etc.) consider what effect peaceful protests again the Germans would have had.
Mermaid said:
Links for the other demonstrations, I expect you have them.
The links are in the side bar to the link you didn't bother to read. Here. Mermaid said:
You need a million man march, or you are wasting your time. You need 100's of thousands to be arrested. Allah be willing. 
Well, the Germans would have just arrested or shot the "ringleaders" beaten up and dispersed everyone else. Remember that, Israeli Arabs aside, the Palestinians are not part of the great Israeli democracy. We never saw big demonstrations against Apartheid in South Africa by those entitled to vote.
TheRealFingers99 said:
Mermaid said:
You need a million man march, or you are wasting your time. You need 100's of thousands to be arrested. Allah be willing.
Well, the Germans would have just arrested or shot the "ringleaders" beaten up and dispersed everyone else. Remember that, Israeli Arabs aside, the Palestinians are not part of the great Israeli democracy. We never saw big demonstrations against Apartheid in South Africa by those entitled to vote.
Do Israeli arabs protest? I have no idea.
Plenty of rallies, all over - so why have these guys not got their act together?
They need you to go and organise them.
Mermaid said:
Do Israeli arabs protest? I have no idea.
Sometimes. Mermaid said:
Plenty of rallies, all over - so why have these guys not got their act together?
They need you to go and organise them.
They've got their act together -- it's just that the Israelis/White S.Africans are not prepared to listen. They need you to go and organise them.
I was thinking that the PKK ought to set up an office in Israel. They could spread the word about Democratic Confederalism, give out copies of Ocalan's book (free download here, and do crazy Kurdish dances on the top of Israeli tanks (flatter than ex Soviet ones), hold conferences with Pappe, etc.
But I'm not going going to tell Palestinians or Israelis how to create peace.
The thought occurred that bulldozers are probably pretty easy to sabotage, but they'd probably shoot you -- or run you over -- if you tried.
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Tuesday 18th November 18:51
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Wednesday 19th November 00:44
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