Discussion
Mermaid said:
One more line:
No violence
Which is pretty much what Fatah had achieved. And to recognise this Netanyahu continued with the settlement building. This made Abbass look impotent, weakening his control, and it made the Palestinians think that non-violence wasn't actually going to get them anywhere. Thereby playing right into the hands of Netanyahu.No violence
Mermaid said:
Posturing to the Hamas viewpoint, the great moderates they are.
Yes. hamas. And if it wasn't Hamas it would be Islamic Jihad, And if it wasn't islamic Jihad it would be Hezbollah. Paper tigers for Netanyahu to hide behind so that people don't look too closely at his actions.Countdown said:
Mermaid said:
One more line:
No violence
Which is pretty much what Fatah had achieved. And to recognise this Netanyahu continued with the settlement building. This made Abbass look impotent, weakening his control, and it made the Palestinians think that non-violence wasn't actually going to get them anywhere. Thereby playing right into the hands of Netanyahu.No violence
Overcome fear
Build confidence
A willingness to share resources of all kinds
Mermaid said:
The current impasse is not helpful, esp to Palestinians:
Overcome fear
Build confidence
A willingness to share resources of all kinds
The "share resources" is a good point. Let's take water;Overcome fear
Build confidence
A willingness to share resources of all kinds
http://www.btselem.org/water/discrimination_in_wat...
Does anyone else find this as difficult to understand as Grumfutock?
I've repeatedly asked whether he will campaign on behalf of Druze Israeli Refuseniks so that they receive the same treatment as Jewish Israeli refuseniks. (There's no hard and fast rule here, but generally the Druze would receive 3 years, the Jew something of the order of 3 months).
This isn't a question about Palestinians (Palestinians are not Israeli citizens, so cannot serve in the IDF, let alone refuse to serve in it), nor about terrorism (refusing to serve in the IDF is not an act of terrorism).
All I get is bluster, a failure to answer the question, and waffle about terrorism.
Am I missing something here? Does Grumfutock not know that many of the IDF's crack troops are not Jewish, but Druze? Does Grumfutock realise that Palestinians cannot vote in Israel? Are we waiting for Likud Central to dig out the right reply?
This isn't a trick question -- I'm not talking about those religious Orthodox Jews who are exempted (by law) from military service, but ordinary Jewish Israelis, ordinary Arab Israelis.Question and context.
You've advocated equal treatment for those who obey the law.
Are you going to advocate equal treatment for those Israeli citizens who break it, regardless of race?OK lets do this for the 4th and final time!
If you choose to be a terrorist, to ignore and refuse to accept the laws of the land, if you decide that, despite elections, you do not wish to have that government and it's laws and take up arms against it. Then you do not get equal rights. You do not want those laws so you lose the ability to cherry pick the ones that suit you.
By terrorist I don't mean, OBVIOUSLY, if you are caught speeding, shoplifting etc. I mean TERRORISM!
Clear? Please do not ask me this again as that is at least the 4th time. I am not going to change my response and I will not answer it again. It is pointless typing the same thing over and over again and there are only so many ways I can word it!
I've repeatedly asked whether he will campaign on behalf of Druze Israeli Refuseniks so that they receive the same treatment as Jewish Israeli refuseniks. (There's no hard and fast rule here, but generally the Druze would receive 3 years, the Jew something of the order of 3 months).
This isn't a question about Palestinians (Palestinians are not Israeli citizens, so cannot serve in the IDF, let alone refuse to serve in it), nor about terrorism (refusing to serve in the IDF is not an act of terrorism).
All I get is bluster, a failure to answer the question, and waffle about terrorism.
Am I missing something here? Does Grumfutock not know that many of the IDF's crack troops are not Jewish, but Druze? Does Grumfutock realise that Palestinians cannot vote in Israel? Are we waiting for Likud Central to dig out the right reply?
Grumfutock said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
What question?
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
And once again I will state it for you because you seem to be terminally incapable of reading my answer!
Yes, equal rights for those that live within the law!!!!!
And I get accused of not answering questions! FFS!
So, your wonderful Israeli democracy guarantees equal treatment for those citizens who obey the law, but unequal treatment, depending on race, for those who break it? If so, surely it's a racist state? Yes, equal rights for those that live within the law!!!!!
And I get accused of not answering questions! FFS!
This isn't a trick question -- I'm not talking about those religious Orthodox Jews who are exempted (by law) from military service, but ordinary Jewish Israelis, ordinary Arab Israelis.
You've advocated equal treatment for those who obey the law.
Are you going to advocate equal treatment for those Israeli citizens who break it, regardless of race?
If you choose to be a terrorist, to ignore and refuse to accept the laws of the land, if you decide that, despite elections, you do not wish to have that government and it's laws and take up arms against it. Then you do not get equal rights. You do not want those laws so you lose the ability to cherry pick the ones that suit you.
By terrorist I don't mean, OBVIOUSLY, if you are caught speeding, shoplifting etc. I mean TERRORISM!
Clear? Please do not ask me this again as that is at least the 4th time. I am not going to change my response and I will not answer it again. It is pointless typing the same thing over and over again and there are only so many ways I can word it!
TheRealFingers99 said:
Does anyone else find this as difficult to understand as Grumfutock?
I've repeatedly asked whether he will campaign on behalf of Druze Israeli Refuseniks so that they receive the same treatment as Jewish Israeli refuseniks. (There's no hard and fast rule here, but generally the Druze would receive 3 years, the Jew something of the order of 3 months).
This isn't a question about Palestinians (Palestinians are not Israeli citizens, so cannot serve in the IDF, let alone refuse to serve in it), nor about terrorism (refusing to serve in the IDF is not an act of terrorism).
All I get is bluster, a failure to answer the question, and waffle about terrorism.
Am I missing something here? Does Grumfutock not know that many of the IDF's crack troops are not Jewish, but Druze? Does Grumfutock realise that Palestinians cannot vote in Israel? Are we waiting for Likud Central to dig out the right reply?
This isn't a trick question -- I'm not talking about those religious Orthodox Jews who are exempted (by law) from military service, but ordinary Jewish Israelis, ordinary Arab Israelis.Question and context.
You've advocated equal treatment for those who obey the law.
Are you going to advocate equal treatment for those Israeli citizens who break it, regardless of race?OK lets do this for the 4th and final time!
If you choose to be a terrorist, to ignore and refuse to accept the laws of the land, if you decide that, despite elections, you do not wish to have that government and it's laws and take up arms against it. Then you do not get equal rights. You do not want those laws so you lose the ability to cherry pick the ones that suit you.
By terrorist I don't mean, OBVIOUSLY, if you are caught speeding, shoplifting etc. I mean TERRORISM!
Clear? Please do not ask me this again as that is at least the 4th time. I am not going to change my response and I will not answer it again. It is pointless typing the same thing over and over again and there are only so many ways I can word it!
As stated. I will not answer it any more. Read it you idiot, I wrote it in plain English! I've repeatedly asked whether he will campaign on behalf of Druze Israeli Refuseniks so that they receive the same treatment as Jewish Israeli refuseniks. (There's no hard and fast rule here, but generally the Druze would receive 3 years, the Jew something of the order of 3 months).
This isn't a question about Palestinians (Palestinians are not Israeli citizens, so cannot serve in the IDF, let alone refuse to serve in it), nor about terrorism (refusing to serve in the IDF is not an act of terrorism).
All I get is bluster, a failure to answer the question, and waffle about terrorism.
Am I missing something here? Does Grumfutock not know that many of the IDF's crack troops are not Jewish, but Druze? Does Grumfutock realise that Palestinians cannot vote in Israel? Are we waiting for Likud Central to dig out the right reply?
Grumfutock said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
What question?
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
And once again I will state it for you because you seem to be terminally incapable of reading my answer!
Yes, equal rights for those that live within the law!!!!!
And I get accused of not answering questions! FFS!
So, your wonderful Israeli democracy guarantees equal treatment for those citizens who obey the law, but unequal treatment, depending on race, for those who break it? If so, surely it's a racist state? Yes, equal rights for those that live within the law!!!!!
And I get accused of not answering questions! FFS!
This isn't a trick question -- I'm not talking about those religious Orthodox Jews who are exempted (by law) from military service, but ordinary Jewish Israelis, ordinary Arab Israelis.
You've advocated equal treatment for those who obey the law.
Are you going to advocate equal treatment for those Israeli citizens who break it, regardless of race?
If you choose to be a terrorist, to ignore and refuse to accept the laws of the land, if you decide that, despite elections, you do not wish to have that government and it's laws and take up arms against it. Then you do not get equal rights. You do not want those laws so you lose the ability to cherry pick the ones that suit you.
By terrorist I don't mean, OBVIOUSLY, if you are caught speeding, shoplifting etc. I mean TERRORISM!
Clear? Please do not ask me this again as that is at least the 4th time. I am not going to change my response and I will not answer it again. It is pointless typing the same thing over and over again and there are only so many ways I can word it!
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
As stated. I will not answer it any more. Read it you idiot, I wrote it in plain English!
I still don't see an answer to my question! I see an answer to a question I never asked!
Grumfutock said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
Incidentally, you've still not answered my point regarding the status of non Jewish Israelis. Will you and your cohort campaign for equality for them, or do you want them banished to complete the ethnic cleansing?
If you live within the confines of the law of a nation then no problem. Equal rights for all. If however you reject the law and all civilised behaviour then don't b
h and moan when big bad Israel drops a bomb on your head!Q: Non-Jewish Israeli status! A: Equal rights for all!!!!
Not hard, not complicated, not difficult and written in English. The only way this can be done any differently is if I draw it with some crayons for you!
Edited by Grumfutock on Sunday 23 November 15:49
Grumfutock said:
So what part of Equal rights for all are you struggling with? What part of your question hasn't been answered?
Q: Non-Jewish Israeli status! A: Equal rights for all!!!!
Not hard, not complicated, not difficult and written in English. The only way this can be done any differently is if I draw it with some crayons for you!
So, can I take it that you and your posse are going to campaign for equal rights (that is, equal sentences) for Druze and Jewish refuseniks? Q: Non-Jewish Israeli status! A: Equal rights for all!!!!
Not hard, not complicated, not difficult and written in English. The only way this can be done any differently is if I draw it with some crayons for you!
Edited by Grumfutock on Sunday 23 November 15:49
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
So what part of Equal rights for all are you struggling with? What part of your question hasn't been answered?
Q: Non-Jewish Israeli status! A: Equal rights for all!!!!
Not hard, not complicated, not difficult and written in English. The only way this can be done any differently is if I draw it with some crayons for you!
So, can I take it that you and your posse are going to campaign for equal rights (that is, equal sentences) for Druze and Jewish refuseniks? Q: Non-Jewish Israeli status! A: Equal rights for all!!!!
Not hard, not complicated, not difficult and written in English. The only way this can be done any differently is if I draw it with some crayons for you!
Edited by Grumfutock on Sunday 23 November 15:49
2. I don't do campaigning.
3. I leave campaigns up to the Liberal hug a hoody brigade of idiots like you good self.
Grumfutock said:
Shame that the Terrorists and the religion of peace don't grant equal rights those Druze IDF soldiers isn't it.
I don't think Hamas treat them any differently to "regular" Jewish IDF troups.While treatment of Druze with the IDF doesn't seem to be discriminatory (although I'm not aware of a Druze IDF General, although they seem to do better in school than Jewish kids, on average), treatment by the Israeli state doesn't exactly seem on a par.
Let's face it, the Druze are just an occasionally useful embarrassment to a would be Jewish nation state.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/1...
Shame the religion of peace and tolerance does extend to dead Druze in the IDF.
Shame the religion of peace and tolerance does extend to dead Druze in the IDF.
Grumfutock said:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/1...
Shame the religion of peace and tolerance does extend to dead Druze in the IDF.
The graffiti was in Hebrew (and may be part of petty vandalism by drunken kids in the area -- see the report): are you sure Muslims did it? I see nothing there that would automatically lead to the conclusion that Muslims did it.Shame the religion of peace and tolerance does extend to dead Druze in the IDF.
But what's all this "religion of peace"? Part of your asinine fantasy that I believe in some kind of Sky Fairy? More of your phobia?
Once more, I'm an atheist. That doesn't mean I believe all Muslims are evil, any more than I believe all Jews, Christians, Yezidi, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists or Druze are good (this is not a complete list). And there are some really nasty atheists out there, too!
TheRealFingers99 said:
..Once more, I'm an atheist. That doesn't mean I believe all Muslims are evil, any more than I believe all Jews, Christians, Yezidi, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists or Druze are good (this is not a complete list). And there are some really nasty atheists out there, too!
Let's face it, the religion of peace does hog the headlines year after year. Do you agree?TheRealFingers99 said:
I don't think Hamas treat them any differently to "regular" Jewish IDF troups.
While treatment of Druze with the IDF doesn't seem to be discriminatory (although I'm not aware of a Druze IDF General, although they seem to do better in school than Jewish kids, on average), treatment by the Israeli state doesn't exactly seem on a par.
Let's face it, the Druze are just an occasionally useful embarrassment to a would be Jewish nation state.
While searching for a Druze General, I knew they had a soldier that had come through the ranks to become a colonal I came across this piece:While treatment of Druze with the IDF doesn't seem to be discriminatory (although I'm not aware of a Druze IDF General, although they seem to do better in school than Jewish kids, on average), treatment by the Israeli state doesn't exactly seem on a par.
Let's face it, the Druze are just an occasionally useful embarrassment to a would be Jewish nation state.
http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp464.htm
Even the Druze it seems have been persecuted by followers of the 'religion of peace' and wghich is probably one reason the majority of the Druze in Israel are more than happy to do their national service for the country in which 100,000 now live.
Phil
Mermaid said:
Let's face it, the religion of peace does hog the headlines year after year. Do you agree?
So do women with large bristols, Big Brother and so on. It's a relatively recent phenomenon -- only really newsworthy since Afghanistan (despite the sheer nastyness of Saudi), but, while there are evil nasty Muslims out there, they're not anything like the whole story. ISIS and Al-Q are a threat, but, as I've said here and elsewhere, most of the people actually fighting them are Muslims (or people happy to fight alongside Muslims).
Ergo, "the religion of peace" isn't the issue, only a pretty screwed up interpretation of it. There's even some evidence of Israeli support for the FSA (Muslims).
Transmitter Man said:
While searching for a Druze General, I knew they had a soldier that had come through the ranks to become a colonal I came across this piece:
http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp464.htm
Even the Druze it seems have been persecuted by followers of the 'religion of peace' and wghich is probably one reason the majority of the Druze in Israel are more than happy to do their national service for the country in which 100,000 now live.
Even in the IDF, it's a big step from Colonel to General! http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp464.htm
Even the Druze it seems have been persecuted by followers of the 'religion of peace' and wghich is probably one reason the majority of the Druze in Israel are more than happy to do their national service for the country in which 100,000 now live.
Still, yeah, the Druze in Israel are usually happy enough to fight in the IDF. On the plus side, it's pretty well paid, has a lot of fringe benefits. (You might compare with poor blacks joining the US armed forces).
On the downside, the results of refusing to enlist include imprisonment and social exclusion.
Outside Israel, the Druze tend to be strongly opposed to Israel.
And, yes, like all minorities (and the Druze are way too small to even think of having a viable state), they tend to be persecuted. My Lebanese friend (who didn't know my background) once said "Those Druze are like your Gypsies, like the Kurds" and take the piss out of Jumblatt.
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Sunday 23 November 18:29
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