Israeli

[Grumfutock]

TBH Mermaid, I cant be arsed to argue with liars, fakers, trolls and children anymore. I will drift in and out from now on, just to check that they are still talking bks but no more than that.

[Countdown]

nitrodave said:

actually, no. without grum this would be an anti israel, anti-jew, twisting of history, one sided argument in support of hamas and their like minded terror chums

Anti Israel possibly but perhaps more accurate to say anti Zionist.Can't say I've seen any anti Jewish comments tbh. As you know three things are different.

[SR7492]

Countdown said:

Anti Israel possibly but perhaps more accurate to say anti Zionist.Can't say I've seen any anti Jewish comments tbh. As you know three things are different.

Just goes to show Count; they don't have a clue what is being said on the topic!

Goodbye Grum . . . . f**king idiot!

[Grumfutock]

SR7492 said:

Countdown said:

Anti Israel possibly but perhaps more accurate to say anti Zionist.Can't say I've seen any anti Jewish comments tbh. As you know three things are different.

Just goes to show Count; they don't have a clue what is being said on the topic!

Goodbye Grum . . . . f**king idiot!

I have seen plenty of anti Jewish dog st on here.

Oh and sp7429 bye. You leaving? I do hope so. Silly little man.

[nitrodave]

Countdown said:

nitrodave said:

actually, no. without grum this would be an anti israel, anti-jew, twisting of history, one sided argument in support of hamas and their like minded terror chums

Anti Israel possibly but perhaps more accurate to say anti Zionist.Can't say I've seen any anti Jewish comments tbh. As you know three things are different.

I said it would be, not that it is... i think grum keeps the balance, even though it's two sides of insanity, it's balance

[Mermaid]

Countdown said:

Anti Israel possibly but perhaps more accurate to say anti Zionist.Can't say I've seen any anti Jewish comments tbh. As you know three things are different.

CD, you are more discerning than the rest - do you honesty believe that the "average" Palestinian differentiates between the 3?

[TheRealFingers99]

Mermaid said:

.................................do you honesty believe that the "average" Palestinian differentiates between the 3?

I think the average Palestinian needs to be asked. If not he/she can be educated as to the difference. (It's not uncommon to find Arabs who don't know about, or can't believe, the Holocaust, but this is a simple matter of ignorance, and we all have areas in which we are ignorant.)

But the wanton, nutjob conflating of the 3 by Zionist camp followers as a means of intimidating opponents is to be despised. And we are not Palestinians.

• A Jew is someone born to a Jewish mother, or someone who converts to Judaism in a very strict and formalised process.
• An Israeli is someone with Israeli citizenship (there are many non Jewish Israelis).
• A Zionist is someone who wants to establish a nation state based on belonging to the Jewish race.

So:

- not all Jews are Zionists.
- not all Israelis are Jews.

You could add:

- not all Palestinians are Muslims

[QuantumTokoloshi]

This is degenerating into a schoolyard squabble, can we clear the decks and get back on topic, without descending into juvenile behaviour.

I know this is PH, but this thread had some good debate going and I would prefer if it was not canned.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 25th November 19:33

[TheRealFingers99]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

This is degenerating into a schoolyard squabble, can we clear the decks and get back on topic, without depending into juvenile behaviour.

I know this is PH, but this thread had some good debate going and I would prefer if it was not canned.

All for it.

Can we start by discussing a (no doubt long and tricky) road to peace?

[TheRealFingers99]

nitrodave said:

actually, no. without grum this would be an anti israel, anti-jew, twisting of history, one sided argument in support of hamas and their like minded terror chums

My 2 pence:

I don't see anyone on here who hates Jews.
I don't see any support for Hamas except as a counter point to Israel
I think the twisting of history has already been done and well established -- I'm prepared to elaborate if required!
I need to thank Grum for radicalising me, but find the insults a bit tedious and the character assassinations pretty dimwitted -- of course, I'm happy to respond in kind: it's either that or give victory to the NAAFI bar bully.
As I've pointed out before, Grum is well to the right of all the living (in 2012) heads of Shin Bet! That might make him an embarrassment for Israel, but that's not really my call.
Terror is routinely practised by both sides and is well documented.

[Grumfutock]

TheRealFingers99 said:

My 2 pence:

I don't see anyone on here who hates Jews.
I don't see any support for Hamas except as a counter point to Israel
I think the twisting of history has already been done and well established -- I'm prepared to elaborate if required!
I need to thank Grum for radicalising me, but find the insults a bit tedious and the character assassinations pretty dimwitted -- of course, I'm happy to respond in kind: it's either that or give victory to the NAAFI bar bully.
As I've pointed out before, Grum is well to the right of all the living (in 2012) heads of Shin Bet! That might make him an embarrassment for Israel, but that's not really my call.
Terror is routinely practised by both sides and is well documented.

Well Mr falsefinger, you still cant resist the petty little jibes can you.

The problem with you is that you play out this holier than thou bullst and then take petty side swipes at me at every single chance. If anyone will care to read back over the last 20 pages they will find that every single time insults have been traded between us it is you that started them! EVERY SINGLE TIME!

All you are is a 5th columnist with a persecution complex. You really do remind me of David Irving.

[discusdave]

may i introduce

Mosab Hassan Yousef, whose father is one of the most powerful Hamas leaders, has said that governments pushing for Palestinian statehood are 'playing with fire'

Shin Bet considered him its most valuable source within the Hamas leadership: the information Yousef supplied prevented dozens of suicide attacks and assassinations of Israelis, exposed numerous Hamas cells, and assisted Israel in hunting down many militants, including his own father, a Hamas leader Sheikh Hassan Yousef.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosab_Hassan_Yousef

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

Well Mr falsefinger, you still cant resist the petty little jibes can you.

The problem with you is that you play out this holier than thou bullst and then take petty side swipes at me at every single chance. If anyone will care to read back over the last 20 pages they will find that every single time insults have been traded between us it is you that started them! EVERY SINGLE TIME!

If they read back further, they'll find you (it's just the most blatant example) accusing some poor guy of being a kiddy fidler, just because he had the nerve to stand up to you. You're a thug -- unrequited, pure and simple. You dish it out, I'll dish it straight back.

Grumfutock said:

All you are is a 5th columnist with a persecution complex. You really do remind me of David Irving.

David Irving, eh? Is that your best shot? Can't remember him reading Murray Bookchin, Ilan Pappe, praising Emma Goldman, etc. Plain nuts.

And I so hoped you were ignoring me, so the rest of us could talk about a road to peace.

"While the Syrian border town of Kobani may be viewed as a public relations battle by the United States and the Islamic State, Kobani’s true strategic importance is that it exemplifies the new Kurdish commitment to eschewing nationalism in favor of building a citizen-empowered democracy that departs radically even from existing forms of democracy in the West." Debbie Bookchin

I'd argue that has a lot, potentially, of importance for the Palestine/Israel question. Shalom.

[Grumfutock]

Dear Fakefinger,

Isn't it time you just admitted your real purpose here? You know, your real and honest intent! The one that you have been working towards since August. Come on, just admit your hatred of the Jews, after all you have already shown how much you hate them and how pro Hamas you are.

Stop the smoke screen, quit the bullst and just be open and honest. I have made my hatred of terrorist more than plain here, why cant you be that truthful?

Grow a pair and just be honest!



HONEST!!!! What was I thinking!

[TheRealFingers99]

discusdave said:

may i introduce

Mosab Hassan Yousef, whose father is one of the most powerful Hamas leaders, has said that governments pushing for Palestinian statehood are 'playing with fire'

Of course you may! (Actually, IIRC, it's the second time he's shown up here.)

I'm inclined to the view that the nation state is itself part of the problem and that a 2 state solution is much less viable than a one state one. But as a pressure tool, it may be useful to argue for a Palestinian state. Old school nationalism is surely a dying dog.

I don't think there are any real friends of Hamas (or even Fatah) here.

The films look interesting (at the bottom of the link). Anyone seen them?

[anonymous-user]

Grum, you need to stand back and take a breather because you are being really foolish here.

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

Dear Fakefinger,

Isn't it time you just admitted your real purpose here? You know, your real and honest intent! The one that you have been working towards since August. Come on, just admit your hatred of the Jews, after all you have already shown how much you hate them and how pro Hamas you are.

Stop the smoke screen, quit the bullst and just be open and honest. I have made my hatred of terrorist more than plain here, why cant you be that truthful?

Grow a pair and just be honest!



HONEST!!!! What was I thinking!

Dear Julie, I do wish you'd just do as you promised and ignore me.

You may not know this, but the Iranian guy you picture supports Hezbollah. Hezbollah hate Hamas, Hamas hate Fatah, Fatah hate Hezbollah. None of them like ISIS or Israel, or the YPG.

Which of the following Israeli/Jewish terrorist groups do you condemn? Stern Gang, Irgun, Lehi, Palmach, Kanai, Gush Emunim, Keshet, Bat Ayin, Brit HaKanaim, Tzrifin?

Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Tuesday 25th November 21:33

[Grumfutock]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I refer you to my esteemed friends post below and ask the question.

Really? Perhaps I should just ignore him?

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

Perhaps I should just ignore him?

Promises, promises.

I'd like to talk about a road to peace now.

[SR7492]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Don't say that, he'll be accusing you of supporting Hamas any time soon!

(Totally agree with you by the way)