Discussion
Mrr T said:
Your missing the only acceptable solution to Hamas, Hezbolla, IS, possibly even many in Fatah.
1 Islamic state. (any jews who have not converted to Islam murdered) Shyria law, no education or votes for women.
And you're forgetting that IS and Hezbollah have no presence in Israel (and are fighting each other in Syria and Iraq). The chances of them getting their act together together is so remote that it can be pretty much dismissed. In so far as Hezbollah are Iran's proxy army, they wouldn't de facto seem to have any argument with Jews per se as (report, strangely, in Kurdnews) there is still a relatively thriving Jewish community in Iran. In fact Jews seem better treated there than Kurds. 1 Islamic state. (any jews who have not converted to Islam murdered) Shyria law, no education or votes for women.
Completely off topic, but those Krazy Kurds in Turkey are rebuilding a synagogue (the city -- Diyubakir -- is also providing refuge for Yazidi refugees).
The big significance of the Israeli refusal of a genuine 2 state solution is maybe that it was always the figleaf shown to the West. Now we can see their naughty bits!
Israel defying world, says South Africa "“The reality is that the overwhelming majority in the world agrees with the position of two states living side by side in peace, but we have a problem of a country that is defying all of that,” said Zuma."
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Wednesday 26th November 23:02
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Thursday 27th November 13:56
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Thursday 27th November 13:58
Israel a democratic country?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewher...
Mentioned by Count numerous times!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewher...
Mentioned by Count numerous times!
The girl has balls!
Very recently they've removed one of attacker's wife and family's residency rights.How is that possible in a democracy? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-302086...
Very recently they've removed one of attacker's wife and family's residency rights.How is that possible in a democracy? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-302086...
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Thursday 27th November 12:37
SR7492 said:
Israel a democratic country?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewher...
Mentioned by Count numerous times!
Even the sitting President of Israel thinks this bill is dangerous and nonsensical. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewher...
Mentioned by Count numerous times!
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/...
TheRealFingers99 said:
Plomo o plata.I find this insistence on a racially pure Israel both frightening and depressing.
Even the Turks, the Turks, FFS, admit that there are Armenian and Kurdish minorities in their Ottoman state, and no longer seem to want to expel them (and were beginning to deal with their marginalisation) before the muppet Erdogan came along.
God help us all: the Israelis want to march back to the 1930s and Berlin.
Even the Turks, the Turks, FFS, admit that there are Armenian and Kurdish minorities in their Ottoman state, and no longer seem to want to expel them (and were beginning to deal with their marginalisation) before the muppet Erdogan came along.
God help us all: the Israelis want to march back to the 1930s and Berlin.
If you all could put down your burning hatred of Israel for 30 seconds you might just see what they are trying to do.
You have all waxed lyrical about a 2 state or a one state solution. OK then, let us look at that honestly.
1. A 2 state answer would involve Israel giving up land that it has, rightly or wrongly, fought and spilt blood for. That land is also, in parts, occupied by settlers, so to give that land up and remove those settlers is going to make any government rather unpopular. Just look at what happened to Rabin.
2. A one state, with equal rights and votes for all, is never going to happen in a million years for one simple, plain fact. No Israeli government is going to put the country in a position where the majority could end up as non Jew. Like it or not, that is never going to happen!
Now I don't have all the answers but I do know that both of the above are truths that are inescapable.
You may now continue in your normal anti Israeli bashing rhetoric.
You have all waxed lyrical about a 2 state or a one state solution. OK then, let us look at that honestly.
1. A 2 state answer would involve Israel giving up land that it has, rightly or wrongly, fought and spilt blood for. That land is also, in parts, occupied by settlers, so to give that land up and remove those settlers is going to make any government rather unpopular. Just look at what happened to Rabin.
2. A one state, with equal rights and votes for all, is never going to happen in a million years for one simple, plain fact. No Israeli government is going to put the country in a position where the majority could end up as non Jew. Like it or not, that is never going to happen!
Now I don't have all the answers but I do know that both of the above are truths that are inescapable.
You may now continue in your normal anti Israeli bashing rhetoric.
Grumfutock said:
2. A one state, with equal rights and votes for all, is never going to happen in a million years for one simple, plain fact. No Israeli government is going to put the country in a position where the majority could end up as non Jew. Like it or not, that is never going to happen!
But why should that matter? No, really!
In the long run (OK, very long run) all you get is a diminishing gene pool.
Surely, a one state solution only has to address two "racial" issues -- the right of return for the refugees and the right of citizenship for all Jews. After that, it's a simple matter of ensuring equality for all races, all religions, all ethnicities.
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
2. A one state, with equal rights and votes for all, is never going to happen in a million years for one simple, plain fact. No Israeli government is going to put the country in a position where the majority could end up as non Jew. Like it or not, that is never going to happen!
But why should that matter? No, really!
In the long run (OK, very long run) all you get is a diminishing gene pool.
Surely, a one state solution only has to address two "racial" issues -- the right of return for the refugees and the right of citizenship for all Jews. After that, it's a simple matter of ensuring equality for all races, all religions, all ethnicities.
I would of thought that it was really obvious that Israel would have absolutely no desire to put itself into a position where Arabs could be in the majority, elect a government and then carry out absolutely everything that they have threatened to do for the last 70 years!
How, pray tell, do you 'ensure' equality for all races exactly?
I honestly thought you had more brains than that.
Grumfutock said:
If you all could put down your burning hatred of Israel for 30 seconds you might just see what they are trying to do.
You have all waxed lyrical about a 2 state or a one state solution. OK then, let us look at that honestly.
1. A 2 state answer would involve Israel giving up land that it has, rightly or wrongly, fought and spilt blood for. That land is also, in parts, occupied by settlers, so to give that land up and remove those settlers is going to make any government rather unpopular. Just look at what happened to Rabin.
2. A one state, with equal rights and votes for all, is never going to happen in a million years for one simple, plain fact. No Israeli government is going to put the country in a position where the majority could end up as non Jew. Like it or not, that is never going to happen!
Now I don't have all the answers but I do know that both of the above are truths that are inescapable.
You may now continue in your normal anti Israeli bashing rhetoric.
You have for once hit the nail on the head regarding Israelis game plan. However I subscribe to the view that just because Israel want to do something - it does not automatically make it 'right'. Your point of view seems to be - Israel don't want X, and hence anything justifies the means of X not happening.You have all waxed lyrical about a 2 state or a one state solution. OK then, let us look at that honestly.
1. A 2 state answer would involve Israel giving up land that it has, rightly or wrongly, fought and spilt blood for. That land is also, in parts, occupied by settlers, so to give that land up and remove those settlers is going to make any government rather unpopular. Just look at what happened to Rabin.
2. A one state, with equal rights and votes for all, is never going to happen in a million years for one simple, plain fact. No Israeli government is going to put the country in a position where the majority could end up as non Jew. Like it or not, that is never going to happen!
Now I don't have all the answers but I do know that both of the above are truths that are inescapable.
You may now continue in your normal anti Israeli bashing rhetoric.
This is why settlement building is continuing - Israelis need people like you.
Grumfutock said:
If you all could put down your burning hatred of Israel for 30 seconds you might just see what they are trying to do.
You have all waxed lyrical about a 2 state or a one state solution. OK then, let us look at that honestly.
1. A 2 state answer would involve Israel giving up land that it has, rightly or wrongly, fought and spilt blood for. That land is also, in parts, occupied by settlers, so to give that land up and remove those settlers is going to make any government rather unpopular. Just look at what happened to Rabin.
2. A one state, with equal rights and votes for all, is never going to happen in a million years for one simple, plain fact. No Israeli government is going to put the country in a position where the majority could end up as non Jew. Like it or not, that is never going to happen!
Now I don't have all the answers but I do know that both of the above are truths that are inescapable.
You may now continue in your normal anti Israeli bashing rhetoric.
Taking option 1 in isolation, the withdrawal from illegal settlements and returning these lands and, in some cases returning homes to their previous 'owners' will be incredibly unpalatable to most right wing politicians in Usrael. They are more preoccupied with staying in power than making peace.You have all waxed lyrical about a 2 state or a one state solution. OK then, let us look at that honestly.
1. A 2 state answer would involve Israel giving up land that it has, rightly or wrongly, fought and spilt blood for. That land is also, in parts, occupied by settlers, so to give that land up and remove those settlers is going to make any government rather unpopular. Just look at what happened to Rabin.
2. A one state, with equal rights and votes for all, is never going to happen in a million years for one simple, plain fact. No Israeli government is going to put the country in a position where the majority could end up as non Jew. Like it or not, that is never going to happen!
Now I don't have all the answers but I do know that both of the above are truths that are inescapable.
You may now continue in your normal anti Israeli bashing rhetoric.
Working on the premise that I agree with you on point or option 1, do you agree with me that further expansionist policies, further land grab and the building of illegal settlements is plain wrong? Should be stopped? Or at the very worst, ensures that the anger and hatred of the Israelis by the Palestinians and other Arabs continues ?
Again assuming we agree on point 1, and again assuming that Israel won't ever withdraw from these settlements (I happen to think that they are going to have to at some point - well at least from some of them) then they should STOP further expansion as all it does us guarantee there will NEVER be peace?
A couple of simple questions in there.... And yes, I know that there are many terrorists who won't ever give up on the Pali side! I do not support them by the way.
Grumfutock said:
Really????
I would of thought that it was really obvious that Israel would have absolutely no desire to put itself into a position where Arabs could be in the majority, elect a government and then carry out absolutely everything that they have threatened to do for the last 70 years!
How, pray tell, do you 'ensure' equality for all races exactly?
I honestly thought you had more brains than that.
You stick it in the constitution! It's a gamble, of sorts, but no bigger, surely, than the white South Africans took or the Chechen, Arab and Syriacs have taken in the Rojava. I commend the Rojava constitution as a starting point. (Google will find.) I would of thought that it was really obvious that Israel would have absolutely no desire to put itself into a position where Arabs could be in the majority, elect a government and then carry out absolutely everything that they have threatened to do for the last 70 years!
How, pray tell, do you 'ensure' equality for all races exactly?
I honestly thought you had more brains than that.
The alternative is a debilitating continuation of the status quo: it's bad for Israelis and Palestinians, and the outside world becomes ever more hostile.
zuby84 said:
You have for once hit the nail on the head regarding Israelis game plan. However I subscribe to the view that just because Israel want to do something - it does not automatically make it 'right'. Your point of view seems to be - Israel don't want X, and hence anything justifies the means of X not happening.
This is why settlement building is continuing - Israelis need people like you.
Not at all. My point of view is that Israel have all the power so CAN do what they see as right!This is why settlement building is continuing - Israelis need people like you.
I make no justification either way, rather I try to explain the reality of now and the near future.
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
Really????
I would of thought that it was really obvious that Israel would have absolutely no desire to put itself into a position where Arabs could be in the majority, elect a government and then carry out absolutely everything that they have threatened to do for the last 70 years!
How, pray tell, do you 'ensure' equality for all races exactly?
I honestly thought you had more brains than that.
You stick it in the constitution! It's a gamble, of sorts, but no bigger, surely, than the white South Africans took or the Chechen, Arab and Syriacs have taken in the Rojava. I commend the Rojava constitution as a starting point. (Google will find.) I would of thought that it was really obvious that Israel would have absolutely no desire to put itself into a position where Arabs could be in the majority, elect a government and then carry out absolutely everything that they have threatened to do for the last 70 years!
How, pray tell, do you 'ensure' equality for all races exactly?
I honestly thought you had more brains than that.
The alternative is a debilitating continuation of the status quo: it's bad for Israelis and Palestinians, and the outside world becomes ever more hostile.
Grumfutock said:
Yes because your average Jew hating Arab will always stick to the constitution, the law and the moral code wont they! Are you really that naïve?
So, what's the difference between now and then? Simple -- the average Palestinian (who doesn't really hate, leave that to Hamas) will actually have something real and concrete to loose. Where it does go a little pear shaped you still have the police and the IDF (admittedly, drawn from both "sides", but, then, Israel's best soldiers have probably always been the Druze since the "Treaty of Blood") just as you have now.
Why didn't the "average white hating black S.African (a far, far, bigger majority, incidentally) throw all the nice white folk into the sea?
Why don't the Muslim Kurds kill all the devil worshipping Yezidi instead of risking their necks to save them?
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
Yes because your average Jew hating Arab will always stick to the constitution, the law and the moral code wont they! Are you really that naïve?
So, what's the difference between now and then? Simple -- the average Palestinian (who doesn't really hate, leave that to Hamas) will actually have something real and concrete to loose. Where it does go a little pear shaped you still have the police and the IDF (admittedly, drawn from both "sides", but, then, Israel's best soldiers have probably always been the Druze since the "Treaty of Blood") just as you have now.
Why didn't the "average white hating black S.African (a far, far, bigger majority, incidentally) throw all the nice white folk into the sea?
Why don't the Muslim Kurds kill all the devil worshipping Yezidi instead of risking their necks to save them?
And in answer to your South African question. There wasn't any religious ideology involved, there wasn't the radicalism involved and they had the peace loving Nelson Mandela to lead them in the correct manner.
To answer the Kurds one, the Yazidis are Kurds! All Kurds see themselves as one race so obviously they wont go around killing each other.
You appear to want to draw comparisons to this problem from other cultures and issues around the globe. That is not a recommended method as what works in America might not work in China. Why? Because people, religions and cultures are different.
Countdown said:
Grumfutock said:
Your average Arab will do EXACTLY what the Imam tells him to do and think.t.
Jesus wept.Countdown, have you ever been to the Middle East? Do you have any grounding or experience of the people involved?
Edited by Grumfutock on Saturday 29th November 19:43
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff