Discussion
psgcarey said:
Jimbeaux said:
I believe it is true. Go lay back down with your stale lies.
Does this mean that you believe that, prior to 1949, the bit of land that is now Israel was a conveniently empty tract of land just waiting for humans to arrive?The Jews arrived in Palestine in large waves, usually corresponding with turmoil/persecution in the Jewish diaspora.
By the time of the rise of Nazism in Germany, the Jews were onto their fifth major wave of immigration.
The British began imposing harsh restrictions on Jewish immigration in 1936 due to Arab resentment. In 1939, the British issued the White Paper of 1939, which severely restricted Jewish immigration, leaving many European Jews during the Holocaust with nowhere to go. Illegal immigration, though dangerous, became a necessity.
Enough Jews had moved to Palestine for the UN to split the country into it's respective groups in an attempt to limit conflict.
Since then the Palestinians have done bugger all to improve their lot, while the Israeli's have formed one of the most prosperous and successful democracies in the world.
I wonder if it has something to do with their belief systems? /devils advocate.
Edited by skyrover on Saturday 24th December 14:16
anonymous said:
[redacted]
They have indeed.The Palestinians have also benefited from massive amounts of foreign aid. Look how they choose to spend it.
According to data from its budgetary reports, compiled in June 2014 by Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the PA’s annual budget for supporting Palestinian terrorists was then roughly $75 million. That amounted to some 16% of the foreign donations the PA received annually. Overall in 2012 foreign aid made up about a quarter of the PA’s $3.1 billion budget. More recent figures are inaccessible since the Palestinian Authority is no longer transparent about the stipend transfers.
skyrover said:
Jews were migrating to Palestine as early as the late 19th Century due to persecution in Russia and Yemen.
The Jews arrived in Palestine in large waves, usually corresponding with turmoil/persecution in the Jewish diaspora.
By the time of the rise of Nazism in Germany, the Jews were onto their fifth major wave of immigration.
The British began imposing harsh restrictions on Jewish immigration in 1936 due to Arab resentment. In 1939, the British issued the White Paper of 1939, which severely restricted Jewish immigration, leaving many European Jews during the Holocaust with nowhere to go. Illegal immigration, though dangerous, became a necessity.
Enough Jews had moved to Palestine for the UN to split the country into it's respective groups in an attempt to limit conflict.
Since then the Palestinians have done bugger all to improve their lot, while the Israeli's have formed one of the most prosperous and successful democracies in the world.
I wonder if it has something to do with their belief systems? /devils advocate.
Your post omits key details around how the arabs did not agree to the partition plan; how the facts around actual number of jewish immigrants was questionned (so that theyd get more land); and the relentless lobbying from zionists to get the plans through which stretched to threats of murder - harry truman called it one of the most dispicable acts he'd ever come across.The Jews arrived in Palestine in large waves, usually corresponding with turmoil/persecution in the Jewish diaspora.
By the time of the rise of Nazism in Germany, the Jews were onto their fifth major wave of immigration.
The British began imposing harsh restrictions on Jewish immigration in 1936 due to Arab resentment. In 1939, the British issued the White Paper of 1939, which severely restricted Jewish immigration, leaving many European Jews during the Holocaust with nowhere to go. Illegal immigration, though dangerous, became a necessity.
Enough Jews had moved to Palestine for the UN to split the country into it's respective groups in an attempt to limit conflict.
Since then the Palestinians have done bugger all to improve their lot, while the Israeli's have formed one of the most prosperous and successful democracies in the world.
I wonder if it has something to do with their belief systems? /devils advocate.
Edited by skyrover on Saturday 24th December 14:16
JawKnee said:
Jimbeaux said:
There is no such thing as a "Palestinian". Those are the people that were betrayed and left trapped in lands the "brother nations" lost after five of them attacked Israel and were defeated. Those "brother nations" could have easily, years ago, absorbed those people into their nations. Two reasons they have not. First, they don't really give a damn about them. Secondly, they are happy keeping them right where they are as they serve as an excuse to continue acting out. These nations' leadership not want a two state solution; the only thing that will make them happy is Israel ceasing to exist.
Christ. And I thought I chatted the most s
t on this forum.Have to agree, you've been out s
tted this time .... 
skyrover said:
They have indeed.
The Palestinians have also benefited from massive amounts of foreign aid. Look how they choose to spend it.
According to data from its budgetary reports, compiled in June 2014 by Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the PA’s annual budget for supporting Palestinian terrorists was then roughly $75 million. That amounted to some 16% of the foreign donations the PA received annually. Overall in 2012 foreign aid made up about a quarter of the PA’s $3.1 billion budget. More recent figures are inaccessible since the Palestinian Authority is no longer transparent about the stipend transfers.
whilst i don't doubt you sincerity, your choice of source of info is not exactly an impartial one.The Palestinians have also benefited from massive amounts of foreign aid. Look how they choose to spend it.
According to data from its budgetary reports, compiled in June 2014 by Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the PA’s annual budget for supporting Palestinian terrorists was then roughly $75 million. That amounted to some 16% of the foreign donations the PA received annually. Overall in 2012 foreign aid made up about a quarter of the PA’s $3.1 billion budget. More recent figures are inaccessible since the Palestinian Authority is no longer transparent about the stipend transfers.
and don't forget one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
i'm am not condoning any of the palestinian groups (Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), Fatah, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), etc etc) actions but i can certainly see the issues that they say they are aggrieved about.
That the Israeli's are better organised fiscally is kind of irrelevant. If your neighbour started building a shed in your garden, then rebuilt the fence to suit, then did the same again, and again, wouldn't the mandate in your house be to protect whats yours?
For the record: i am sympathy for ordinary israeli's who generally are the ones getting blown up/killed and the Palestinians tactics of bombings and indescriminate killing (in fact killing of any sort) does not lend itself to being supported. It's got to a stage now where no one can claim the moral high ground.
combiharvey said:
For the record: i am sympathy for ordinary israeli's who generally are the ones getting blown up/killed and the Palestinians tactics of bombings and indescriminate killing (in fact killing of any sort) does not lend itself to being supported. It's got to a stage now where no one can claim the moral high ground.
Key I think is recognising there is a hard right of Israel that wants to increase the settlements; and see the eradication of the Palestinian people - and the Israeli Government does not want to prevent this. The recent UN Resolution shows this issue is now accepted by many countries, even those with huge Zionist lobbies like the US and UK.It would be interesting to see if the Palestinian militants would not indiscriminately kill if they had access to the same US target missiles; war planes and snipers that the Israelis have rather than home made bombs. But then again the Israelis still seem to struggle not killing civilians despite having this impressive arsenal.
combiharvey said:
For the record: i am sympathy for ordinary israeli's who generally are the ones getting blown up/killed and the Palestinians tactics of bombings and indescriminate killing (in fact killing of any sort) does not lend itself to being supported. It's got to a stage now where no one can claim the moral high ground.
well saidRaymondVanDerDon said:
skyrover said:
Jews were migrating to Palestine as early as the late 19th Century due to persecution in Russia and Yemen.
The Jews arrived in Palestine in large waves, usually corresponding with turmoil/persecution in the Jewish diaspora.
By the time of the rise of Nazism in Germany, the Jews were onto their fifth major wave of immigration.
The British began imposing harsh restrictions on Jewish immigration in 1936 due to Arab resentment. In 1939, the British issued the White Paper of 1939, which severely restricted Jewish immigration, leaving many European Jews during the Holocaust with nowhere to go. Illegal immigration, though dangerous, became a necessity.
Enough Jews had moved to Palestine for the UN to split the country into it's respective groups in an attempt to limit conflict.
Since then the Palestinians have done bugger all to improve their lot, while the Israeli's have formed one of the most prosperous and successful democracies in the world.
I wonder if it has something to do with their belief systems? /devils advocate.
Your post omits key details around how the arabs did not agree to the partition plan; how the facts around actual number of jewish immigrants was questionned (so that theyd get more land); and the relentless lobbying from zionists to get the plans through which stretched to threats of murder - harry truman called it one of the most dispicable acts he'd ever come across.The Jews arrived in Palestine in large waves, usually corresponding with turmoil/persecution in the Jewish diaspora.
By the time of the rise of Nazism in Germany, the Jews were onto their fifth major wave of immigration.
The British began imposing harsh restrictions on Jewish immigration in 1936 due to Arab resentment. In 1939, the British issued the White Paper of 1939, which severely restricted Jewish immigration, leaving many European Jews during the Holocaust with nowhere to go. Illegal immigration, though dangerous, became a necessity.
Enough Jews had moved to Palestine for the UN to split the country into it's respective groups in an attempt to limit conflict.
Since then the Palestinians have done bugger all to improve their lot, while the Israeli's have formed one of the most prosperous and successful democracies in the world.
I wonder if it has something to do with their belief systems? /devils advocate.
Edited by skyrover on Saturday 24th December 14:16
RaymondVanDerDon said:
combiharvey said:
For the record: i am sympathy for ordinary israeli's who generally are the ones getting blown up/killed and the Palestinians tactics of bombings and indescriminate killing (in fact killing of any sort) does not lend itself to being supported. It's got to a stage now where no one can claim the moral high ground.
Key I think is recognising there is a hard right of Israel that wants to increase the settlements; and see the eradication of the Palestinian people - and the Israeli Government does not want to prevent this. The recent UN Resolution shows this issue is now accepted by many countries, even those with huge Zionist lobbies like the US and UK.It would be interesting to see if the Palestinian militants would not indiscriminately kill if they had access to the same US target missiles; war planes and snipers that the Israelis have rather than home made bombs. But then again the Israelis still seem to struggle not killing civilians despite having this impressive arsenal.
no killing would be the ideal, of course, but is a political solution now possible? has there been too many killings and hurt on each side for there ever to be a peace process that is palatable to the populace of israel and palestine?
i wish i had an answer.. no.. i wish the leaders of those two states had answers... but i fear they don't and it's going to take a war (with one clear "winner") or a big f
k off wall (and decades of separation) for the two to stop doing this to each other. (i don't wish for that, just exasperated that these man made divisions are there and have been there for a lot longer than the israeli state creation.) as an aside: i watched a program about the ultra orthodox jews in israel... jeezo they really off the scale scary!!!
There won't be peace as the sole aim is the destruction of Israel.
When you teach hatred in the schools, there's no hope.
The various factions have no peace between themselves let alone coming to any peaceful agreement with next door.
As I said before if you think anything less than Israel being pushed into the sea will bring peace then you are deluded.
When you teach hatred in the schools, there's no hope.
The various factions have no peace between themselves let alone coming to any peaceful agreement with next door.
As I said before if you think anything less than Israel being pushed into the sea will bring peace then you are deluded.
REALIST123 said:
JawKnee said:
Jimbeaux said:
There is no such thing as a "Palestinian". Those are the people that were betrayed and left trapped in lands the "brother nations" lost after five of them attacked Israel and were defeated. Those "brother nations" could have easily, years ago, absorbed those people into their nations. Two reasons they have not. First, they don't really give a damn about them. Secondly, they are happy keeping them right where they are as they serve as an excuse to continue acting out. These nations' leadership not want a two state solution; the only thing that will make them happy is Israel ceasing to exist.
Christ. And I thought I chatted the most st on this forum.Have to agree, you've been out s
tted this time .... combiharvey said:
i genuinely wasn't aware of there being a huge lobby group in the UK. the US has very well publicised ones. I know that there are elements in the UK and world wide which are very "pro-active" (for want of a better term).
Google 'Friends of Israel'. Also look into Corbyn's refusal to sign up to Friends of Israel - and the resulting outcry.
Very interesting how much power the Zionist cause has.
Surely if the 'whole world' via the UN is against your actions and continued building settlements in land that is under debate, then shouldn't you look yourself in the mirror??
Hamas are undoubtedly baddies.... PLO etc seem a pretty unattractive bunch. Unfortunately, so do the Israelis driving forwards against the UN etc.
The Far Right in Israel seem to have absolutely no volume control and the same could be said by Klein and his fellow idiots in the US! Calling Obama a 'Jew hating antisemite' isn't helpful and I think we can all agree isn't progressing any rational argument. In fact, it is so counter productive that I question both the reporting (it is in the Guardian link above) and the motive. I won't question his sanity as he is a politician.....
I don't expect to see peace in my lifetime! Unfortunately!!!
Hamas are undoubtedly baddies.... PLO etc seem a pretty unattractive bunch. Unfortunately, so do the Israelis driving forwards against the UN etc.
The Far Right in Israel seem to have absolutely no volume control and the same could be said by Klein and his fellow idiots in the US! Calling Obama a 'Jew hating antisemite' isn't helpful and I think we can all agree isn't progressing any rational argument. In fact, it is so counter productive that I question both the reporting (it is in the Guardian link above) and the motive. I won't question his sanity as he is a politician.....
I don't expect to see peace in my lifetime! Unfortunately!!!
psgcarey said:
Jimbeaux said:
I believe it is true. Go lay back down with your stale lies.
Does this mean that you believe that, prior to 1949, the bit of land that is now Israel was a conveniently empty tract of land just waiting for humans to arrive?
Blib said:
I've no horse in this particular race, thank goodness. However, I've always wondered why Israel's Arab neighbours kept the poor fleeing Palestinians in miserable camps on the borders. Did they try to integrate them into their communities at all??
Of course not, their "brothers" are useful to them right were they are. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff