Discussion
Countdown said:
Transmitter Man said:
Not strictly true.
Were you aware there were not only Jews in the Israeli parliament but Druze, Christian and Israeli Arabs?
Heck, even in Kuwait you have Sunni & Shia political parties. The latter did however have a problem with their last Ambassador to Iran who after seven years in office returned to Kuwait City and started to put Shia in some top jobs including the military and police. This did not go down well with the majority of the population Sunni Arab by a large majority) and he was eventually ousted.
So. Yes Israel can and is both a Jewish and democratic state and long may it continue.
Phil
Re: your point about Kuwait - the GCC states aren't a democracy (and have never purported to be as such, as far as I'm aware). Whereas Israel does.Were you aware there were not only Jews in the Israeli parliament but Druze, Christian and Israeli Arabs?
Heck, even in Kuwait you have Sunni & Shia political parties. The latter did however have a problem with their last Ambassador to Iran who after seven years in office returned to Kuwait City and started to put Shia in some top jobs including the military and police. This did not go down well with the majority of the population Sunni Arab by a large majority) and he was eventually ousted.
So. Yes Israel can and is both a Jewish and democratic state and long may it continue.
Phil
Now it's obvious to anybody why Israel won't give the 4m+ Palestinians in the WB a Israeli passport. The jewish people would become a minority and the arabs a majority and it's understandable given Jewish history as to why they wouldn't want that. However an element of the Israeli population also wants full control over the West Bank, a de-facto if not actual annexation. (The far Right "Jewish Home" party are leading proponents of this).
The problem is Israel can't have it both ways - they want to control the whole of Isarel and the WB but also ensure that most Palestinians aren't able to vote for their own government. That's not a democracy. Wouldn't it make more sense to give the Palestinians their own State?
Transmitter Man said:
Not strictly true.
Were you aware there were not only Jews in the Israeli parliament but Druze, Christian and Israeli Arabs?
Heck, even in Kuwait you have Sunni & Shia political parties. The latter did however have a problem with their last Ambassador to Iran who after seven years in office returned to Kuwait City and started to put Shia in some top jobs including the military and police. This did not go down well with the majority of the population Sunni Arab by a large majority) and he was eventually ousted.
So. Yes Israel can and is both a Jewish and democratic state and long may it continue.
Phil
Phil, The Israeli Arabs you mention are as popular as SS volunteers were from France/Holland, etc, during WW2. Wouldn't want to be in their shoes if things went to pieces out there.....Were you aware there were not only Jews in the Israeli parliament but Druze, Christian and Israeli Arabs?
Heck, even in Kuwait you have Sunni & Shia political parties. The latter did however have a problem with their last Ambassador to Iran who after seven years in office returned to Kuwait City and started to put Shia in some top jobs including the military and police. This did not go down well with the majority of the population Sunni Arab by a large majority) and he was eventually ousted.
So. Yes Israel can and is both a Jewish and democratic state and long may it continue.
Phil
I went to Israel once to visit my Uncle's grave. Sadly, I'll never go back as the place was the most racist, obnoxious and downright rude place i'd ever visited. Hateful country.
Israel is not a democracy and never will be.
kurt535 said:
Transmitter Man said:
Not strictly true.
Were you aware there were not only Jews in the Israeli parliament but Druze, Christian and Israeli Arabs?
Heck, even in Kuwait you have Sunni & Shia political parties. The latter did however have a problem with their last Ambassador to Iran who after seven years in office returned to Kuwait City and started to put Shia in some top jobs including the military and police. This did not go down well with the majority of the population Sunni Arab by a large majority) and he was eventually ousted.
So. Yes Israel can and is both a Jewish and democratic state and long may it continue.
Phil
Phil, The Israeli Arabs you mention are as popular as SS volunteers were from France/Holland, etc, during WW2. Wouldn't want to be in their shoes if things went to pieces out there.....Were you aware there were not only Jews in the Israeli parliament but Druze, Christian and Israeli Arabs?
Heck, even in Kuwait you have Sunni & Shia political parties. The latter did however have a problem with their last Ambassador to Iran who after seven years in office returned to Kuwait City and started to put Shia in some top jobs including the military and police. This did not go down well with the majority of the population Sunni Arab by a large majority) and he was eventually ousted.
So. Yes Israel can and is both a Jewish and democratic state and long may it continue.
Phil
I went to Israel once to visit my Uncle's grave. Sadly, I'll never go back as the place was the most racist, obnoxious and downright rude place i'd ever visited. Hateful country.
Israel is not a democracy and never will be.
Think of this; Syria has seen 400,000 butchered civilians; Iraq continues to see thousands of deaths; all nations surrounding Israel are killing with high frequency; either ISIS, their own governments, or some other civil strife as the cause. The UN has said or done little except to beat up on the one democracy sitting smack in the middle of all that chaos. Useless institution.
kurt535 said:
Phil, The Israeli Arabs you mention are as popular as SS volunteers were from France/Holland, etc, during WW2. Wouldn't want to be in their shoes if things went to pieces out there.....
I went to Israel once to visit my Uncle's grave. Sadly, I'll never go back as the place was the most racist, obnoxious and downright rude place i'd ever visited. Hateful country.
Israel is not a democracy and never will be.
What happened then? I went to Israel once to visit my Uncle's grave. Sadly, I'll never go back as the place was the most racist, obnoxious and downright rude place i'd ever visited. Hateful country.
Israel is not a democracy and never will be.
Jimbeaux said:
Think of this; Syria has seen 400,000 butchered civilians; Iraq continues to see thousands of deaths; all nations surrounding Israel are killing with high frequency; either ISIS, their own governments, or some other civil strife as the cause. The UN has said or done little except to beat up on the one democracy sitting smack in the middle of all that chaos. Useless institution.
Spot on. Hopefully Donald Trump keeps to his promise regarding the UN.I have just heard on the radio that the proposed vote on further building/settlements has been postponed? No explanation as to why?
I Don't quite understand the mechanism over there but seems strange?
Presumably the UN move and vote has had some influence? Or
The vote was in danger of completely inflaming the region even more? Or
There may have been a chance that the vote would have gone 'the wrong way'??
Mmmmm
I Don't quite understand the mechanism over there but seems strange?
Presumably the UN move and vote has had some influence? Or
The vote was in danger of completely inflaming the region even more? Or
There may have been a chance that the vote would have gone 'the wrong way'??
Mmmmm
Outside the same tired arguments being renewed on this thread a few things have been going on that may have affected things.
- Various ambassadors left deeply unimpressed about being called in on Christmas Day, leading to some barbed comments about the reaction there'd have been about calling their counterparts in on an equivalent religious holiday.
- Lots of threats and posturing about taking 'action' in reponse to the UN vote, not exactly helping to counter the original arguments. Calmer voices may have prevailed.
- Bibi following what seems to be a regular pattern in local politics by being yet another holder of high office getting into trouble over bribery and other criminal acts.
The whole thing is a vast mess not helped by people on all sides with short tempers and high opinions of themselves.
Most of it is on the level of the playground, except these children have weapons and their fights tend to get messy.
- Various ambassadors left deeply unimpressed about being called in on Christmas Day, leading to some barbed comments about the reaction there'd have been about calling their counterparts in on an equivalent religious holiday.
- Lots of threats and posturing about taking 'action' in reponse to the UN vote, not exactly helping to counter the original arguments. Calmer voices may have prevailed.
- Bibi following what seems to be a regular pattern in local politics by being yet another holder of high office getting into trouble over bribery and other criminal acts.
The whole thing is a vast mess not helped by people on all sides with short tempers and high opinions of themselves.
Most of it is on the level of the playground, except these children have weapons and their fights tend to get messy.
The interesting fact is actually that if you roll back the 11 pages of recent stuff the last post on here was from late 2015.
Shows how much Israel has benefited from the Arab Spring.
No news
The Arab spring has gone horribly wrong for Arabic countries, aided and abetted by France, UK and US, who seem never to be able to get it right in the Middle East. This is rather sad considering how much experience France and the UK has out there.
So Arab Spring 0. Israeli Spring 1
Israel could have capitalised on this. Syria is now a Stalingrad but on the country scale. Jordan is concentrated on it being the status quo with a royal palace and not IS, Lebanon is staying on the sidelines as too many factions that, once fighting abroad might come home to roost, and Egypt is staying put whilst fighting Jihad and inbuilt anti military / pro religion factions at home.
So what does Israel do? They fight hammer and tong about the latest UN decision which simply carries on the normal advice which is building settlements to bolster your territorial ambitions is wrong in the long run.
That's really dumb
I guess the tantrum on the US not doing the normal veto caught them with their pants down.
Shows how much Israel has benefited from the Arab Spring.
No news
The Arab spring has gone horribly wrong for Arabic countries, aided and abetted by France, UK and US, who seem never to be able to get it right in the Middle East. This is rather sad considering how much experience France and the UK has out there.
So Arab Spring 0. Israeli Spring 1
Israel could have capitalised on this. Syria is now a Stalingrad but on the country scale. Jordan is concentrated on it being the status quo with a royal palace and not IS, Lebanon is staying on the sidelines as too many factions that, once fighting abroad might come home to roost, and Egypt is staying put whilst fighting Jihad and inbuilt anti military / pro religion factions at home.
So what does Israel do? They fight hammer and tong about the latest UN decision which simply carries on the normal advice which is building settlements to bolster your territorial ambitions is wrong in the long run.
That's really dumb
I guess the tantrum on the US not doing the normal veto caught them with their pants down.
Jimbeaux said:
Think of this; Syria has seen 400,000 butchered civilians; Iraq continues to see thousands of deaths; all nations surrounding Israel are killing with high frequency; either ISIS, their own governments, or some other civil strife as the cause. The UN has said or done little except to beat up on the one democracy sitting smack in the middle of all that chaos. Useless institution.
The US forced regime change in Iraq from 2003 and can you comment on how many civilians have died as a result since then compared to the status quo before that?Israel is a democracy but it is also a democracy which has invaded another country in the past years, unlike Iran. It's got a very large, very extreme religious part also of course.
As have the other side.
Gandahar said:
Jimbeaux said:
Think of this; Syria has seen 400,000 butchered civilians; Iraq continues to see thousands of deaths; all nations surrounding Israel are killing with high frequency; either ISIS, their own governments, or some other civil strife as the cause. The UN has said or done little except to beat up on the one democracy sitting smack in the middle of all that chaos. Useless institution.
The US forced regime change in Iraq from 2003 and can you comment on how many civilians have died as a result since then compared to the status quo before that?Israel is a democracy but it is also a democracy which has invaded another country in the past years, unlike Iran. It's got a very large, very extreme religious part also of course.
As have the other side.
As to Israel invading.....you do recall the 6 days war I presume; the one where five Soviet-armed Arab nations went at Israel for "exiting", telling civilians to leave because they could return after the victory? Fast forward; the "brother nations" lost. Now, they believe they should get their land back and the ones they stranded in "Palestine" should be taken care of as well. Starting/losing a war has very crappy consequences. ETA: We obviously disagree, however, I appreciate your manner of discussion/debate.
At least Naftali Bennett has the balls to say it how it is about annexation.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/after-un-vote-bennett...
http://www.timesofisrael.com/after-un-vote-bennett...
ked up?Jimbeaux said:
Sorry, taking no sides here but that made me smile! It's like, "embrace the dick-ness!". 
Edited by Jimbeaux on Wednesday 28th December 19:26
eddharris said:
Jimbeaux said:
Sorry, taking no sides here but that made me smile! It's like, "embrace the dick-ness!". Edited by Jimbeaux on Wednesday 28th December 19:26
Edited by Jimbeaux on Wednesday 28th December 19:40
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff