Christian Bakery vs Queerspace
Discussion
SpeckledJim said:
popeyewhite said:
SpeckledJim said:
popeyewhite said:
SpeckledJim said:
And why 'the blacks' can't just stay in another hotel, and, and, and...
Control yourself. 
The person buying the service is entitled not to be discriminated against. Whether the person doing the discriminating is a racist or a homophobe, the principle (and the law) is the same.
The illegality of gay marriage as an institution in NI is immaterial to this question. Putting the requested words on a cake would NOT have been illegal. And now we know that refusing to do it WAS illegal.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
They said they refused to do the slogan because they do not agree with homosexuality or it's promotion. The flip side of not doing slogans that you don't agree with is that they do do slogans that they have no objection to.
If they'd have said "we don't do political slogans of any kind", then they'd be in the clear.
Maybe, but only right up until someone else who dislikes anti-gay prejudice went in and asked for a cake promoting, for instance, Easter.If they'd have said "we don't do political slogans of any kind", then they'd be in the clear.
They stitched themselves up on that one. It is the classic verbal.
ks appears to be explicitly excluded from this.Nanook said:
V6Pushfit said:
So you can go to a flag shop in a Catholic area and ask for an Orange Order flag and then sue them when they undoubtedly refuse?
Do they have orange order flags in stock?If so, I'd imagine they'd sell you one?
Correct answers:
1. We don't stock them, there's no call for it in this area.
2. We don't sell any political flags.
Incorrect answer
We make up our own flags, but we're not making an orange order one because we don't agree with it or the promotion of it.
Eric Mc said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
But a request for an anti gay marriage slogan on a cake would have been met. There's the discrimination. The owners themselves said it, they didn't do it because it was contrary to their beliefs. They don't approve of gay marriage. They are entitled to that view. Their business is not.
Last time I looked, human beings aren't divorced from their businesses. Where do personal ethics and beliefs fit into running a business then?Maybe that explains why the world is so screwed up these days if you cannot apply personal judgement to how you run your business.
All business owners to a degree, apply their own ethics, beliefs and personal judgements to the running of their business. But the decent ones do not apply their personal prejudices.
There must be millions of business owners who dislike gays, jews, blacks, asians, women, muslims etc. But when it comes to business, they treat everyone the same, and supply their products equally to all.
Your average printer must, during the life of the business, print loads of stuff they don't agree with. Your average caterer must supply loads of events they wouldn't be seen dead at in a personal capacity.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
God, you don't half spout some tripe.
All business owners to a degree, apply their own ethics, beliefs and personal judgements to the running of their business. But the decent ones do not apply their personal prejudices.
There must be millions of business owners who dislike gays, jews, blacks, asians, women, muslims etc. But when it comes to business, they treat everyone the same, and supply their products equally to all.
Your average printer must, during the life of the business, print loads of stuff they don't agree with. Your average caterer must supply loads of events they wouldn't be seen dead at in a personal capacity.
Isn't there a difference between disliking someone and simply not aligning with their values?All business owners to a degree, apply their own ethics, beliefs and personal judgements to the running of their business. But the decent ones do not apply their personal prejudices.
There must be millions of business owners who dislike gays, jews, blacks, asians, women, muslims etc. But when it comes to business, they treat everyone the same, and supply their products equally to all.
Your average printer must, during the life of the business, print loads of stuff they don't agree with. Your average caterer must supply loads of events they wouldn't be seen dead at in a personal capacity.
sidicks said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
God, you don't half spout some tripe.
All business owners to a degree, apply their own ethics, beliefs and personal judgements to the running of their business. But the decent ones do not apply their personal prejudices.
There must be millions of business owners who dislike gays, jews, blacks, asians, women, muslims etc. But when it comes to business, they treat everyone the same, and supply their products equally to all.
Your average printer must, during the life of the business, print loads of stuff they don't agree with. Your average caterer must supply loads of events they wouldn't be seen dead at in a personal capacity.
Isn't there a difference between disliking someone and simply not aligning with their values?All business owners to a degree, apply their own ethics, beliefs and personal judgements to the running of their business. But the decent ones do not apply their personal prejudices.
There must be millions of business owners who dislike gays, jews, blacks, asians, women, muslims etc. But when it comes to business, they treat everyone the same, and supply their products equally to all.
Your average printer must, during the life of the business, print loads of stuff they don't agree with. Your average caterer must supply loads of events they wouldn't be seen dead at in a personal capacity.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Eric Mc said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
But a request for an anti gay marriage slogan on a cake would have been met. There's the discrimination. The owners themselves said it, they didn't do it because it was contrary to their beliefs. They don't approve of gay marriage. They are entitled to that view. Their business is not.
Last time I looked, human beings aren't divorced from their businesses. Where do personal ethics and beliefs fit into running a business then?Maybe that explains why the world is so screwed up these days if you cannot apply personal judgement to how you run your business.
All business owners to a degree, apply their own ethics, beliefs and personal judgements to the running of their business. But the decent ones do not apply their personal prejudices.
There must be millions of business owners who dislike gays, jews, blacks, asians, women, muslims etc. But when it comes to business, they treat everyone the same, and supply their products equally to all.
Your average printer must, during the life of the business, print loads of stuff they don't agree with. Your average caterer must supply loads of events they wouldn't be seen dead at in a personal capacity.
Evanivitch said:
irocfan said:
seeing as this thread has jumped the shark on several occasions how's about the (male or female) prostitute who refuses same sex clients, surely by the logic of the this case they'd be up for homophobia?
Brilliant straw man, absolutely fantastic. TwigtheWonderkid said:
Dress it up how you wish. Decent people know to leave their personal prejudices at home and not to bring them into work.
If they don't get the service they wish for from a Baker decent people just go to another one. Decent people respect the beliefs and values of others.popeyewhite said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Dress it up how you wish. Decent people know to leave their personal prejudices at home and not to bring them into work.
If they don't get the service they wish for from a Baker decent people just go to another one. Decent people respect the beliefs and values of others.BIANCO said:
So if a pedo goes in and asked for a cake saying “let's make kiddy porn legal”. The law says they can't say no if they disagree?
Yes! Exactly that! Well done, you have clearly read widely around this issue.Paedophiles, as any fule no, are protected against discrimination by law.
Give your head a wobble and see what falls out, see if you can do the double.
ETA: I typed this very slowly, as I know you cannot read very fast.
Edited by SpeckledJim on Tuesday 25th October 23:44
BIANCO said:
So if a pedo goes in and asked for a cake saying “let's make kiddy porn legal”. The law says they can't say no if they disagree?
This forum is actually going beyond parody.A. What is a pedo?
B. I'm presuming you mean peadophile, so you equate a homosexual person with a peadophile?
C. You are an idiot
BIANCO said:
SpeckledJim said:
BIANCO said:
So if a pedo goes in and asked for a cake saying “let's make kiddy porn legal”. The law says they can't say no if they disagree?
Yes! Exactly that! Well done, you have clearly read widely around this issue.Paedophiles, as any fule no, are protected against discrimination by law.
Give your head a wobble and see what falls out, see if you can do the double.
But as we are told people cant choose there sexusality so this must be true about pedos. If they have never broken the law but want to try and ask to change the law. Obviously the question could easily be shown to be outrageous and shot down. But is it not discriminating against their sexuality telling then no?
Are you saying some people are just wired wrong or can choose their sexuality?
You seem to want to equate homosexuality with peadophiles, why?
See Matt Bianco's response above, plus a dim view of an over PC society being railroaded into feeling persecuted by anybody who perceives they are being slighted or their 'rights' infringed.
If he couldn't get a gay cake there why didn't he go to another baker like any normal person would? - oh wait he'd sue for the bus fare as well. I have only one word: Diddums
If he couldn't get a gay cake there why didn't he go to another baker like any normal person would? - oh wait he'd sue for the bus fare as well. I have only one word: Diddums
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