Christian Bakery vs Queerspace

[bitchstewie]

hutchst said:

super7 said:

There are a number of groups in the world with chip's on their shoulders so big that they believe they have a given right to impose their views on everyone else, and that everyone else has too accept it, regardless.

They're called liberals.

Yes being liberal is such a bad thing.

[Einion Yrth]

bhstewie said:

hutchst said:

super7 said:

There are a number of groups in the world with chip's on their shoulders so big that they believe they have a given right to impose their views on everyone else, and that everyone else has too accept it, regardless.

They're called liberals.

Yes being liberal is such a bad thing.

Those who describe themselves as liberals are increasingly no such thing.

[bitchstewie]

Einion Yrth said:

Those who describe themselves as liberals are increasingly no such thing.

Yes I do take the point and agree with it in some cases, though I often think similarly when I hear people on here say about themselves "I'm a little to the right of the centre" when they'd make Gerard Batten look like a "leftist"

[selym]

bhstewie said:

Yes I do take the point and agree with it in some cases, though I often think similarly when I hear people on here say about themselves "I'm a little to the right of the centre" when they'd make Gerard Batten look like a "leftist"

Nobody admits to being centrist though, at least not on the internet. They'd rather be polarising and opinionated s.

[ClaphamGT3]

Einion Yrth said:

bhstewie said:

hutchst said:

super7 said:

There are a number of groups in the world with chip's on their shoulders so big that they believe they have a given right to impose their views on everyone else, and that everyone else has too accept it, regardless.

They're called liberals.

Yes being liberal is such a bad thing.

Those who describe themselves as liberals are increasingly no such thing.

I would describe myself as a liberal. To me, this means that the bakery owner has a perfect right not to bake a cake to celebrate a same sex marriage and that anyone who wishes to has a perfect right to describe the bakery owner as homophobic. It's called a free and open society. Once upon a time, we used to cherish that.......

[Einion Yrth]

ClaphamGT3 said:

Einion Yrth said:

bhstewie said:

hutchst said:

super7 said:

There are a number of groups in the world with chip's on their shoulders so big that they believe they have a given right to impose their views on everyone else, and that everyone else has too accept it, regardless.

They're called liberals.

Yes being liberal is such a bad thing.

Those who describe themselves as liberals are increasingly no such thing.

I would describe myself as a liberal. To me, this means that the bakery owner has a perfect right not to bake a cake to celebrate a same sex marriage and that anyone who wishes to has a perfect right to describe the bakery owner as homophobic. It's called a free and open society. Once upon a time, we used to cherish that.......

The point, that you seem to have missed, is that the honorable term "liberal" is being appropriated and subverted by a group of ideologues who tend rather more to the authoritarian and deeply unpleasant end of the political spectrum. This does not necessarily make you one of them.

[citizensm1th]

ClaphamGT3 said:

I would describe myself as a liberal. To me, this means that the bakery owner has a perfect right not to bake a cake to celebrate a same sex marriage and that anyone who wishes to has a perfect right to describe the bakery owner as homophobic. It's called a free and open society. Once upon a time, we used to cherish that.......

Well said

[TooMany2cvs]

ClaphamGT3 said:

To me, this means that the bakery owner has a perfect right not to bake a cake to celebrate a same sex marriage

There's an important distinction here that the Supreme Court judgement explicitly pointed to.
Judgement - https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2017-0...

There's a parallel drawn with a US Supreme Court case in the Postscript - paras 59-62.

The Asher case wasn't about a cake to celebrate a particular same-sex marriage, as that US case was. If it had been, and they'd turned that down while simultaneously making similar cakes to celebrate straight marriages, that would have been discrimination.

This was a cake to promote a political campaign - to get same-sex marriage legalised in the province, bringing it into line with the rest of the country.

[Halb]

bhstewie said:

Yes I do take the point and agree with it in some cases, though I often think similarly when I hear people on here say about themselves "I'm a little to the right of the centre" when they'd make Gerard Batten look like a "leftist"

the term 'liberal' has been appropriated and misused by right-wing nutters (started in the USA but has now travelled) that it doesn't really have a real meaning now, one always needs to clarify what a person means when they use 'liberal' as a pejorative.

[TooMany2cvs]

Halb said:

bhstewie said:

Yes I do take the point and agree with it in some cases, though I often think similarly when I hear people on here say about themselves "I'm a little to the right of the centre" when they'd make Gerard Batten look like a "leftist"

the term 'liberal' has been appropriated and misused by right-wing nutters (started in the USA but has now travelled) that it doesn't really have a real meaning now, one always needs to clarify what a person means when they use 'liberal' as a pejorative.

Quite.

Oxford Dictionary said:

Liberal - Willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.

That's an insult...?

Oxford Dictionary said:

Conservative - Averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values.

Sounds more like an insult to me...

[Kccv23highliftcam]

TooMany2cvs said:

Halb said:

bhstewie said:

Yes I do take the point and agree with it in some cases, though I often think similarly when I hear people on here say about themselves "I'm a little to the right of the centre" when they'd make Gerard Batten look like a "leftist"

the term 'liberal' has been appropriated and misused by right-wing nutters (started in the USA but has now travelled) that it doesn't really have a real meaning now, one always needs to clarify what a person means when they use 'liberal' as a pejorative.

Quite.

Oxford Dictionary said:

Liberal - Willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.

That's an insult...?

Oxford Dictionary said:

Conservative - Averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values.

Sounds more like an insult to me...

Sounds like more bks of the same kind actually..

[TooMany2cvs]

Kccv23highliftcam said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Oxford Dictionary said:

Liberal - Willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.

That's an insult...?

Oxford Dictionary said:

Conservative - Averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values.

Sounds more like an insult to me...

Sounds like more bks of the same kind actually..

Lewis Carroll said:

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

What does the OED know, anyway?

[AJL308]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Thorodin said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

That wasn't the point I was addressing in my post. Are you thick or what?

It's not WW that's confused, or confusing. Neither is he (or she) insulting anybody. You lose on both counts I'm afraid. Ad hominem attacks add nothing.

The discussion has moved on without you. We all know how the judgement went, and why. We're now discussing if the owners are homophobic, and indeed, does it matter if they are.

I say yes they are, and no, it doesn't matter. Other opinions are available.

And the SC seems to disagree with you. Indeed, they state specifically that there is evidence that they are probably not:

"28. The Court of Appeal held that “this was a case of association with the gay and bisexual community and the protected personal characteristic was the sexual orientation of that community” (para 58). This suggests that the reason for refusing# to supply the cake was that Mr Lee was likely to associate with the gay community of which the McArthurs disapproved. But there was no evidence that the bakery had discriminated on that or any other prohibited ground in the past. The evidence was that they both employed and served gay people and treated them in a nondiscriminatory way. Nor was there any finding that the reason for refusing to supply the cake was that Mr Lee was thought to associate with gay people. The reason was their religious objection to gay marriage."

Edited by AJL308 on Wednesday 17th October 17:44

[Ructions]

God has shown her anger https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-i...

[The Wookie]

Ructions said:

God has shown her anger https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-i...

Pretty ironic considering the rumours that it was homophobic arsonists provoked by the Primark’s support for gay pride

[JuniorD]

and it's off to the European Court

Cake guy is taking his case to the ECHR. He want's his f*****g cake and he wants to f*****g well eat it!



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/15/ga...

[amusingduck]

What a bellend

[Eric Mc]

He's perfectly entitled to do this if he wants to - irrespective of what you think of him.

[amusingduck]

Eric Mc said:

He's perfectly entitled to do this if he wants to - irrespective of what you think of him.

What a non post. Where did I say otherwise?

I'm perfectly entitled to think he's a bellend if I want to - irrespective of what you think of me.

[Eric Mc]

I think absolutely nothing about you.

My opinion of you was never mentioned.