Christian Bakery vs Queerspace

[gpo746]

Phil1 said:

gpo746 said:

Now hold on a mo chuck
I don't think Eric Mc has clarified he is bigoted against gays in ant way shape or form
The man can post stuff that can appear to be a bit "clever" as if he is looking for a row. I sometimes raise my eyebrows at his stuff his lecture to someone about the dogs name in Dambusters and why it isn't relevant to the film is a master class of long winded waffle.
However I don't think that's remotely the case here. I think he is simply stating something that a lot of people will be thinking that: the people who wanted the cake have looked for confrontation.

Incidentally so far the only bigotry I can see is your bigotry towards Eric Mc posting his view.

So what? How is it any different to trading standards looking for confrontation? Please explain?

Eric Mc has clearly posted that this isn't an important issue. The issue is gay bigotry.

Oh dear
I suspect the only issue you have is the length of straws you will clutch out to drag your argument out
Good luck to you
oh incidentally our friend Miss Waters has just commented that its just stupid and the queerspace knew exactly what they were doing
Have you any thoughts for our Miss Waters ?

[otolith]

Eric Mc said:

Not at all.

I am all for creating a hue and cry over important principles. But being denied a gay themed cake does not really stand as being one of those crucial issues for humanity.

What is someone asked me to bake a cake showing some symbol I found distateful - like a Nazi themed cake, and I refused?

There is no law in the UK against baking a cake with a Nazi Swastika on it, so the person I refused to provide the cake could legitimately claim I was discriminating against them.

Is nazism a specifically protected attribute in law upon which it is illegal to discriminate?

Do you have a list of services you consider it acceptable to illegally discriminate in the provision of?

The principle (and that's what they are making a fuss about) is the same.

[Phil1]

Eric Mc said:

Confrontation is important when the result is worth the effort.

I can't honestly see what major result will be obtained from this particular incident.

The end result is surely a society in which small minded bigotry is neither acceptable or even found during normal life, such as purchasing a non-essential item on the high street. Why should the bar be set so low that only really, really bad bigotry is tackled. Why should any level of bigotry be acceptable? Even worse to my mind, why should anyone trying to tackle bigotry be painted as the bad guys, making a fuss and won't they just keep quiet?

[Phil1]

gpo746 said:

Oh dear
I suspect the only issue you have is the length of straws you will clutch out to drag your argument out
Good luck to you
oh incidentally our friend Miss Waters has just commented that its just stupid and the queerspace knew exactly what they were doing
Have you any thoughts for our Miss Waters ?

I suspect you don't know what bigotry is, as evidenced by your incorrect use of it previously.

[ATG]

Eric Mc said:

Confrontation is important when the result is worth the effort.

I can't honestly see what major result will be obtained from this particular incident.

Surely it conveys the message that businesses that discriminate against homosexuals can expect to be held to account? It will act to deter others.

[Eric Mc]

Because if we pursue every single nitty gritty incident of perceived bigotry society will actually descend into a mindless, boring blob of blandness.

A little bit of difference of opinion should always be tolerated - especially when the overall stakes are not that important.

[gpo746]

Christ on a bike Eric you've found a whole bunch of 1980's Peter Tatchell's with this one

[JB!]

This would be a non-story if a white, atheist male had gone into a Halal butchers and demanded bacon...

If the bakery has a precedent of refusing to ice images they disagree with, whats the issue? They have not refused to serve the individual, I'm sure if he just wanted a plain cake they'd be happy to provide one.

You are in direct conflict with someone's beliefs and expect them not to object? So much for equality.

[Eric Mc]

What I do find on PH is that generally, left wing views are not that popular here - unless the normally upheld right wing view of life emanates from a religious source.

[gpo746]

Phil1 said:

gpo746 said:

Oh dear
I suspect the only issue you have is the length of straws you will clutch out to drag your argument out
Good luck to you
oh incidentally our friend Miss Waters has just commented that its just stupid and the queerspace knew exactly what they were doing
Have you any thoughts for our Miss Waters ?

I suspect you don't know what bigotry is, as evidenced by your incorrect use of it previously.

I think I know quite well what it is.
this is just pure waffle and of little real importance.
But feel free to come back with more carp.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Some Gump said:

However, I know I'd not go to a Jewish butcher and demand port.

No, I'd go to a Jewish pub. There's one near me, The Kosher Horses.

[Grumfutock]

Bill said:

Grumfutock said:

Bill said:

Grumfutock said:

This whole topic reminded me of another conversation on here a while back. Smoking.

Now surely if this is discriminating against gays then refusing to employ somebody because they smoke is the same? And yet the law say's otherwise. Screwed up world.

You know being gay isn't something you do by choice?

What the hell has CHOICE got to do with it? Religion is a choice and the same rules apply.

Why the confusion? These laws also apply to religious discrimination and religion is a choice.

Why are you struggling with that concept?

[gpo746]

JB! said:

This would be a non-story if a white, atheist male had gone into a Halal butchers and demanded bacon...

If the bakery has a precedent of refusing to ice images they disagree with, whats the issue? They have not refused to serve the individual, I'm sure if he just wanted a plain cake they'd be happy to provide one.

You are in direct conflict with someone's beliefs and expect them not to object? So much for equality.

Next time I there I will pop in and ask them to bake me a cake with the Damnbusters logo and the dogs name written across the top

[gpo746]

Eric Mc said:

What I do find on PH is that generally, left wing views are not that popular here - unless the normally upheld right wing view of life emanates from a religious source.

I'm feeding that one through the universal translator as we speak

[Gandahar]

Eric Mc said:

What I do find on PH is that generally, left wing views are not that popular here - unless the normally upheld right wing view of life emanates from a religious source.

Yes, must be a few people not sure whether to berate the Christians or berate the homosexuals.

Can't they both be in the wrong ?

I've actually bought from that bakery. It was past it's sell by date but the chap said they had been selling the same 5 loaves since 39AD.

"Really, that's very queer " I said

"Don't you start, get out ! "

Edited by Gandahar on Tuesday 8th July 13:49

[Eric Mc]

Gandahar said:

Yes, must be a few people not sure whether to berate the Christians or berate the homosexuals.

Can't they both be in the wrong ?

I've actually bought from that bakery. It was past it's sell by date but the chap said they had been selling the same 5 loaves from 39AD.

I certainly wouldn't buy any bakery produce from 79AD - it would be contaminated by volcanic ash.

[otolith]

Eric Mc said:

What I do find on PH is that generally, left wing views are not that popular here - unless the normally upheld right wing view of life emanates from a religious source.

Personally, I don't really care what someone's grounds for being a bigot are - religion only comes into it because it is often the religious who think their faith gives them a let to ignore the standards of behaviour the law holds the rest of us to.

[Bill]

JB! said:

This would be a non-story if a white, atheist male had gone into a Halal butchers and demanded bacon...

If the bakery has a precedent of refusing to ice images they disagree with, whats the issue? They have not refused to serve the individual, I'm sure if he just wanted a plain cake they'd be happy to provide one.

You are in direct conflict with someone's beliefs and expect them not to object? So much for equality.

That makes as much sense as visiting a Jewish butcher and demanding port, ie something they don't sell. This is a bakery selling cakes.

[Gandahar]

Eric Mc said:

Gandahar said:

Yes, must be a few people not sure whether to berate the Christians or berate the homosexuals.

Can't they both be in the wrong ?

I've actually bought from that bakery. It was past it's sell by date but the chap said they had been selling the same 5 loaves from 39AD.

I certainly wouldn't buy any bakery produce from 79AD - it would be contaminated by volcanic ash.

Might be ok toasted ?

[Eric Mc]

otolith said:

Personally, I don't really care what someone's grounds for being a bigot are - religion only comes into it because it is often the religious who think their faith gives them a let to ignore the standards of behaviour the law holds the rest of us to.

True.

On the other hand, who wants to seek out confrontation for the sake of it when nobody's life is being affected by the issue they think they are highlighting.

Both as bad as each other.