Scotland after the vote

[Murph7355]

Vipers said:

Good question, IF we end up with an Independent Scotland, Alex won't have the final say on projects, so what changes there.

The people available to blame.

Though I suspect any separation conditions will give the yes camp sufficient to bleat about for the next couple of hundred years. The world would not be the same without mass whinging from North of the border.

[steveatesh]

Murph7355 said:

The people available to blame.

Though I suspect any separation conditions will give the yes camp sufficient to bleat about for the next couple of hundred years. The world would not be the same without mass whinging from North of the border.

^ This will become true in the event of separation.

No currency union, a possible enforcement of the established practice mineral reserves are divided up rather than accepting the geographical route, trading difficulties caused by Scotland leaving the UK and with it the EU, no military ship building, the movement of public sector jobs, London attracting the financial sector, higher interest rates and with it mortgages, credit cards etc etc

All will be down to the English having a lip on to thwart the brave new world of Salmond and co, and each will be cited as unforeseen bullying when all they want to do is be friends. I imagine he has the scripts now.

[Moonhawk]

Murph7355 said:

The people available to blame.

Though I suspect any separation conditions will give the yes camp sufficient to bleat about for the next couple of hundred years. The world would not be the same without mass whinging from North of the border.

Perhaps that's Salmonds plan-b in the case where they don't get a currency union, geographic share of oil etc.

It'll all be ok - because they have the manufacture of victim cards to fall back on. Should provide a sizeable boost to employment and the GDP figure for iScotland - at least for the first few years.

[Moonhawk]

steveatesh said:

^ This will become true in the event of separation.

No currency union, a possible enforcement of the established practice mineral reserves are divided up rather than accepting the geographical route, trading difficulties caused by Scotland leaving the UK and with it the EU, no military ship building, the movement of public sector jobs, London attracting the financial sector, higher interest rates and with it mortgages, credit cards etc etc

All will be down to the English having a lip on to thwart the brave new world of Salmond and co, and each will be cited as unforeseen bullying when all they want to do is be friends. I imagine he has the scripts now.

People have been calling this since vol.1 of the thread. The only thing more predictable is the annual East Enders Christmas gore fest.

[Grumfutock]

Moonhawk said:

People have been calling this since vol.1 of the thread. The only thing more predictable is the annual East Enders Christmas gore fest.

Maybe it is true then.

[jshell]

Vipers said:

McWigglebum4th said:

jshell said:

You asked 'how' Salmond could spend the money on trams. He did so because he was forced to by the other parties in Scotland, not by choice. That's 'how'.
He tried to stop the whole debacle.

So remind me again how we won't have wasteful vanity projects in scotland?

Good question, IF we end up with an Independent Scotland, Alex won't have the final say on projects, so what changes there.

WTF, you pair?

I only mentioned wee Eck and the trams.

It's the other Scottish politicos who are the s that forced through that vanity project/congestion charge revenge exercise.

[Moonhawk]

jshell said:

It's the other Scottish politicos who are the s that forced through that vanity project/congestion charge revenge exercise.

That's exactly the point though - these same politicians will be running the show post independence - so how will things be better?

The yes camp seem to be implying that Scottish politics is/will be somehow fairer, better etc than Westminster politics - but it simply doesn't ring true.

Will they all suddenly gain competence or morality on the 19th.

[jshell]

Moonhawk said:

jshell said:

It's the other Scottish politicos who are the s that forced through that vanity project/congestion charge revenge exercise.

That's exactly the point though - these same politicians will be running the show post independence - so how will things be better?

The yes camp seem to be implying that Scottish politics is/will be somehow fairer, better etc than Westminster politics - but it simply doesn't ring true.

Will they all suddenly gain competence or morality on the 19th.

There would have to be changes as the other parties are Westminster based parties. They would have to change format and the voters would then decide who is in power. The machine of incompetence cannot remain in the status quo.

[Moonhawk]

jshell said:

There would have to be changes as the other parties are Westminster based parties.

The party in charge of Scotland since 2011 isn't a "Westminster based party". Did things magically get better overnight during 2011?

[jshell]

Moonhawk said:

jshell said:

There would have to be changes as the other parties are Westminster based parties.

The party in charge of Scotland since 2011 isn't a "Westminster based party". Did things magically get better overnight during 2011?

I'm not advoocating independence. I only answered a question about Salmond wanting to cancel the trams. That was a good deed, but he's still a .

A'hm oot 'o here!

[Vipers]

jshell said:

Vipers said:

McWigglebum4th said:

jshell said:

You asked 'how' Salmond could spend the money on trams. He did so because he was forced to by the other parties in Scotland, not by choice. That's 'how'.
He tried to stop the whole debacle.

So remind me again how we won't have wasteful vanity projects in scotland?

Good question, IF we end up with an Independent Scotland, Alex won't have the final say on projects, so what changes there.

WTF, you pair?

I only mentioned wee Eck and the trams.

It's the other Scottish politicos who are the s that forced through that vanity project/congestion charge revenge exercise.

I thought my question was a sensible one, oh well move on. Not going to get bogged down in politics.

[jamiehamy]

Wahay! debating with a very pro-Yes, SNP subscribed friend on FB, he just asked me if I was suffering from Stockholm Syndrome....I've told him that as I don't consider myself a victim, it's an impossibility.

[Moonhawk]

jamiehamy said:

Wahay! debating with a very pro-Yes, SNP subscribed friend on FB, he just asked me if I was suffering from Stockholm Syndrome....I've told him that as I don't consider myself a victim, it's an impossibility.

Also - don't nats generally hold the opinion that we are the captors and they are the ones being held against their will.

Not sure he's quite grasped the concept of what Stockholm Syndrome actually is.

[jshell]

Guam said:

Missed a trick there, should have asked him does he suffer from Norway Syndrome, the SNP are the guys who idolise the Scandinavians

And please take it from a Norway resident that it's fairly st here and we don't want Scotland to turn out this way!

[Big Rod]

jshell said:

And please take it from a Norway resident that it's fairly st here and we don't want Scotland to turn out this way!

Is it really?

Care to elaborate on that a bit for us if you'd be so kind?

[cloggy]

Big Rod said:

jshell said:

And please take it from a Norway resident that it's fairly st here and we don't want Scotland to turn out this way!

Is it really?

Care to elaborate on that a bit for us if you'd be so kind?

Hmmm, tell us and not just the price of beer.

[Super Slo Mo]

cloggy said:

Big Rod said:

jshell said:

And please take it from a Norway resident that it's fairly st here and we don't want Scotland to turn out this way!

Is it really?

Care to elaborate on that a bit for us if you'd be so kind?

Hmmm, tell us and not just the price of beer.

Last time I was there, the locals were explaining about the eye watering levels of taxation, especially relating to vehicles, the very strict rules about everything it seemed, and the draconian enforcement of those rules.

It's things like, any car under 10 years old is subject to purchase tax, regardless of whether you buy it off a dealer or through a private sale. You're also taxed based on the number of seats, so if you buy a 5 seater (Volvo estate, or Discovery for instance) then retro fit extra seats to make them seven seaters, you're supposed to declare it and pay the additional tax. The authorities carry out regular roadside checks for this sort of thing.

Of course, it could have been simple scaremongering by the locals; one of them I was with saw a Range Rover 5 seater with a person sitting in the boot unrestrained. He rushed off to take its photo and pass the details on to the relevant authority. That struck me that he was being a busybody of the highest order, but perhaps its understandable if he's had to jump through hoops and pay through the nose to have extra seats in his car.

It feels very 'socialist', Nanny State, 'do as we tell you or else', but that might just be my perception. There's little of the liberal attitudes present in this country.

Beautiful place though, and very quiet in general as not many people live outside of the towns and cities.

[Foppo]

Super Slo Mo said:

cloggy said:

Big Rod said:

jshell said:

And please take it from a Norway resident that it's fairly st here and we don't want Scotland to turn out this way!

Is it really?

Care to elaborate on that a bit for us if you'd be so kind?

Hmmm, tell us and not just the price of beer.

Last time I was there, the locals were explaining about the eye watering levels of taxation, especially relating to vehicles, the very strict rules about everything it seemed, and the draconian enforcement of those rules.

It's things like, any car under 10 years old is subject to purchase tax, regardless of whether you buy it off a dealer or through a private sale. You're also taxed based on the number of seats, so if you buy a 5 seater (Volvo estate, or Discovery for instance) then retro fit extra seats to make them seven seaters, you're supposed to declare it and pay the additional tax. The authorities carry out regular roadside checks for this sort of thing.

Of course, it could have been simple scaremongering by the locals; one of them I was with saw a Range Rover 5 seater with a person sitting in the boot unrestrained. He rushed off to take its photo and pass the details on to the relevant authority. That struck me that he was being a busybody of the highest order, but perhaps its understandable if he's had to jump through hoops and pay through the nose to have extra seats in his car.

It feels very 'socialist', Nanny State, 'do as we tell you or else', but that might just be my perception. There's little of the liberal attitudes present in this country.

Beautiful place though, and very quiet in general as not many people live outside of the towns and cities.

Norway is a country with a high standard of living.Excellent social structure.

Socialist nanny state? Maybe.Who cares if you are looked after.Norway saved their oil money for a rainy day where did our money go.The Scots would say down south.

[confused_buyer]

Foppo said:

Norway saved their oil money for a rainy day

Actually, they didn't. They ran up a big debt to pretty much the same amount, they've put money into a savings account but equally owe the same on credit cards.

They did this not to save for a rainy day but to even out oil revenue over a long term as in some years they'd have been rolling in it and in others potless. By borrowing against the pot they can keep a relativelty consistent budget.

The UK did not do this as oil represents a small part of it's income so flucuations in price have nothing like the same effect.

[Super Slo Mo]

Foppo said:

Norway is a country with a high standard of living.Excellent social structure.

Socialist nanny state? Maybe.Who cares if you are looked after.Norway saved their oil money for a rainy day where did our money go.The Scots would say down south.

Yes, indeed. I'm just relaying the sentiments of the locals I was working with. Personally I love the place, although having to stick absolutely bang on to the speed limits seems odd coming from here where things are a bit more flexible. Their infrastructure is very good, but of course, with a small population, is expensive per head to implement.

I imagine, though, that it rankles a little to buy a used car, and have to pay the same again in tax. No doubt you get used to it.