Malaysian Airlines 777 down on Ukraine / Russia Border?

[lamboman100]

eccles said:

lamboman100 said:

eccles said:

skyrover said:

Shrapnel damage in what appears to be a section toward the nose of the aircraft



Possibly consistent with a missile launched before an aircraft reached the position?

Looks like the bottom edge of cockpit windows. Found next to a stand of trees..... branches can make puncture damage like that. (just playing devils advocate)

Assuming the pic and metal are real, it looks broadly consistent with a SAM exploding pre-impact, upwards at a ~45-degree angle, leaving shrapnel holes and scorch-marks.

At first glance it does, but without context it could be anything. It could have impacted the trees at high speed and then been scorched in the fire.
There are similar skin punctures in other bits of wreckage from the empennage.... channel 4 news reporter was showing what an expert had told him was part of the undercarriage (made out of sheet metal!) with punctures which he said may have been made by shrapnel from a missile..... so lots of holes which could have made by a missile from all over the aircraft.

The scorch-marks in the photo appear localized (around each small hole), rather than a tree-plus-fire scenario covering all or part of the panel.

[Mermaid]

UK criticises Russia for supporting Ukrainian freedom fighters (separatists) . Just as well CMD lost the vote on Syria.

[lamboman100]

Mermaid said:

Jimbeaux said:

How does a nation with an economy the size of Italy share a quarter of world domination? I get that he is a regional power, mostly due to oil and gas exports but come on.

Big guns & a big bank balance help you get to the top table.

Zactly.

Russia has the world's 2nd most powerful army / navy / airforce. And arguably the world's fiercest soldiers. And the world's largest gas-coal-oil-diamond reserves (combined). And the world's largest landmass.

Those kinds of stats buy a lot of power and global influence.

[Jimbeaux]

lamboman100 said:

Mermaid said:

Jimbeaux said:

How does a nation with an economy the size of Italy share a quarter of world domination? I get that he is a regional power, mostly due to oil and gas exports but come on.

Big guns & a big bank balance help you get to the top table.

Zactly.

Russia has the world's 2nd most powerful army / navy / airforce. And arguably the world's fiercest soldiers. And the world's largest gas-coal-oil-diamond reserves (combined). And the world's largest landmass.

Those kinds of stats buy a lot of power and global influence.

Army size matters if right on your own border. Training, coordination, Logistics, and communication are what decides if an army is effective or not. Iraq in Desert Storm outnumbered us in all aspects in that theatre. 100 hours later, the lack of those things I mentioned revealed their importance.

[Mermaid]

US thinks the motion would have been unnecessary if Russia had used its influence over some rebel forces in Ukraine. I suppose the same could be true if the US used its influence with Israel.

[vonuber]

lamboman100 said:

And arguably the world's drunkest and poorly trained soldiers.

There you go, fixed that for you.

[Stevanos]

lamboman100 said:

Zactly.

Russia has the world's 2nd most powerful army / navy / airforce. And arguably the world's fiercest soldiers. And the world's largest gas-coal-oil-diamond reserves (combined). And the world's largest landmass.

Those kinds of stats buy a lot of power and global influence.

I am not sure I believe that, their sea fleet is a rotting mess as is their air force, certainly not much to worry about apart from their missiles.

Their soldiers are not the fiercest, they are pussies who live off liquor and hoares and will never match the honour, skills or aptitude Western forces offer. Regarding land mass and resources, just add up Canada, USA and Australia and you will see that our Soviet friends are not going to win.

They are a tin-pot nation with a silly fkwit as their leader, I hope karma hit's them badly for this vile act of terrorism

[Stevanos]

How does one go about getting rid of a country from the UN Security Council?

[Magog]

I was going to say that people would take Italy more seriously if they had a nuclear arsenal and the ability to deliver it by ballistic missile from a submarine platform. But that basically describes France, and no one takes them seriously.

[lamboman100]

Stevanos said:

lamboman100 said:

Zactly.

Russia has the world's 2nd most powerful army / navy / airforce. And arguably the world's fiercest soldiers. And the world's largest gas-coal-oil-diamond reserves (combined). And the world's largest landmass.

Those kinds of stats buy a lot of power and global influence.

I am not sure I believe that, their sea fleet is a rotting mess as is their air force, certainly not much to worry about apart from their missiles.

Their soldiers are not the fiercest, they are pussies who live off liquor and hoares and will never match the honour, skills or aptitude Western forces offer. Regarding land mass and resources, just add up Canada, USA and Australia and you will see that our Soviet friends are not going to win.

They are a tin-pot nation with a silly fkwit as their leader, I hope karma hit's them badly for this vile act of terrorism

There are plenty of studies out there that rank Russia nearly as strong militarily as the US in 2014:

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.a...

You don't win and hold the largest landmass on Earth by being a pussy.

[Foppo]

I'm not sure about fiercest soldiers from Russia,when in battle the majority of soldiers are fierce.

I still think Russia needs us more than we them.Their Economy is not that strong,would anybody move to Russia for a better live? What Putin is doing trying to create the old empire and give Russians pride in their country.They lost that after the break up of the Soviet Union.He is creating a feeling of cold war against the west.That is why he is populair.

Hence taking over crimea.

[eccles]

lamboman100 said:

The scorch-marks in the photo appear localized (around each small hole), rather than a tree-plus-fire scenario covering all or part of the panel.

The whole area looks scorched to me. Some holes going in, some holes coming out. Lots of stuff going on, none of it pointing conclusively to it being a missile.
How do you explain similar skin punctures on parts from all over the aircraft?

[Mermaid]

Foppo said:

I still think Russia needs us more than we them.Their Economy is not that strong,would anybody move to Russia for a better live? What Putin is doing trying to create the old empire and give Russians pride in their country.They lost that after the break up of the Soviet Union.He is creating a feeling of cold war against the west.That is why he is populair.

Hence taking over crimea.

The trend has been against Russia for a while, Putin needs to be boxed in but confrontation not helpful to anyone.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Stevanos said:

lamboman100 said:

Zactly.

Russia has the world's 2nd most powerful army / navy / airforce. And arguably the world's fiercest soldiers. And the world's largest gas-coal-oil-diamond reserves (combined). And the world's largest landmass.

Those kinds of stats buy a lot of power and global influence.

I am not sure I believe that, their sea fleet is a rotting mess as is their air force, certainly not much to worry about apart from their missiles.

Their soldiers are not the fiercest, they are pussies who live off liquor and hoares and will never match the honour, skills or aptitude Western forces offer. Regarding land mass and resources, just add up Canada, USA and Australia and you will see that our Soviet friends are not going to win.

They are a tin-pot nation with a silly fkwit as their leader, I hope karma hit's them badly for this vile act of terrorism

A tinpot nation possibly, with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world and supplies a huge percentage of Europe's gas supply. The military may not be first rate but they can bring the war home to Europe and the Uk, unlike our recent opponents, do you like being warm in winter? Be nice to Vladski.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 21st July 21:34

[Jimbeaux]

lamboman100 said:

There are plenty of studies out there that rank Russia nearly as strong militarily as the US in 2014:

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.a...

You don't win and hold the largest landmass on Earth by being a pussy.

There are plenty of studies indicating my dick can break concrete, when in reality, it can only crack wood.
Seriously, if you understood military preperation and training requirements, combined arms coordination requirements, communication and logistical needs to effectively deploy an army and achieve objectives, then you would know that such a study is so far off the mark as to not be even up for debate.

[Stevanos]

lamboman100 said:

There are plenty of studies out there that rank Russia nearly as strong militarily as the US in 2014:

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.a...

You don't win and hold the largest landmass on Earth by being a pussy.

I am not sure any of them are valid. Look at their kit, it's falling apart, they are a mess.

[Jimbeaux]

Mermaid said:

Foppo said:

I still think Russia needs us more than we them.Their Economy is not that strong,would anybody move to Russia for a better live? What Putin is doing trying to create the old empire and give Russians pride in their country.They lost that after the break up of the Soviet Union.He is creating a feeling of cold war against the west.That is why he is populair.

Hence taking over crimea.

The trend has been against Russia for a while, Putin needs to be boxed in but confrontation not helpful to anyone.

I agree with this.

[anonymous-user]

I cannot believe what I'm reading. Suddenly Russia are cooperating and helping.

Russia said:

"Russia is ready to provide any assistance necessary," Vitaly Churkin, Russia's UN envoy, has told the UN.

Churkin says that Russia fully supports an investigation to "shed light on the truth", and that "all elements of truth, including the lack boxes, should be provided to ICAO", the international aviation agency.

He says that "on the ground there must be access" and that international experts' security must be ensured, possibly with "some kind of humanitarian corridors". He adds that though it's good that "representatives of Donbass, Donetsk … and involved countries" are on the ground, "there needs to be a full compliment of experts at the crash site."

So what will the investigators find now... I suspect not a lot.

From Guardian's live text coverage.

[MrCarPark]

Russia has backed a unanimous UN SC resolution to bring the perpetrators to justice.

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741697

[Mermaid]

Jimbeaux said:

Mermaid said:

Foppo said:

I still think Russia needs us more than we them.Their Economy is not that strong,would anybody move to Russia for a better live? What Putin is doing trying to create the old empire and give Russians pride in their country.They lost that after the break up of the Soviet Union.He is creating a feeling of cold war against the west.That is why he is populair.

Hence taking over crimea.

The trend has been against Russia for a while, Putin needs to be boxed in but confrontation not helpful to anyone.

I agree with this.

Saddam was pretty well boxed in