Malaysian Airlines 777 down on Ukraine / Russia Border?
Discussion
VinceFox said:
I've removed this thread from my feed. Some of the petty, tit for tat point scoring being demonstrated here is bloody poor show.
I keep returning because amongst the BS and sentimental claptrap are some points I'm finding interesting. PH seems to attract the best and worst which keeps me coming back. 
https://twitter.com/maxseddon
This is like something out of an episode of 24. Except that the protagonists actually are negotiating with terrorists.
Black boxes have been handed over, and some sort of document has been signed.
https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/4913449226632...
Interesting quote from a Malaysian official.
"Malaysian would like to convey our sincere appreciation to His Excellency Mr. Borodai for obeying our request."
I hope they are saying what is required to get the black boxes, rather than sincerely saying those words.
This is like something out of an episode of 24. Except that the protagonists actually are negotiating with terrorists.
Black boxes have been handed over, and some sort of document has been signed.
https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/4913449226632...
Interesting quote from a Malaysian official.
"Malaysian would like to convey our sincere appreciation to His Excellency Mr. Borodai for obeying our request."
I hope they are saying what is required to get the black boxes, rather than sincerely saying those words.
Edited by RenOHH on Monday 21st July 23:25
eccles said:
Steffan said:
Quite the most appalling sights I have seen for some years. I do hope never to see such barbarity again.
I see this sort of comment a lot on threads like this where the dead are from 'closer to home'.Yet, arguably, far worse goes on around the world in Africa and the middle east on a daily basis and no one seems to bat an eyelid.
Funny how sensitive people get when it's white Europeans or Americans that are the victims.
It's nothing to do with whether the victims are black or white, rich or poor or anything else. It's an awful tragedy whereby 300 innocent people have lost their lives doing something that a lot of us do regularly, fly on a plane. It brings out the "Wow, that could have been us" feelings in all of us.
And if slightly more notice has been taken in the "white" people who died, maybe that's because we are a predominantly white country and the Brits who died in the crash are white. No doubt the Dutch version of PH is concentrating on the Dutch that died, the Malaysian PH on the Malaysians etc etc.
In a thread that has sunk belly low at times, that comment is down there amongst the very worst.
eccles said:
I see this sort of comment a lot on threads like this where the dead are from 'closer to home'.
Yet, arguably, far worse goes on around the world in Africa and the middle east on a daily basis and no one seems to bat an eyelid.
Funny how sensitive people get when it's white Europeans or Americans that are the victims.
So when those poor girls were kidnapped from their school in Africa nothing was mentioned in the media... oh wait...Yet, arguably, far worse goes on around the world in Africa and the middle east on a daily basis and no one seems to bat an eyelid.
Funny how sensitive people get when it's white Europeans or Americans that are the victims.
eccles said:
I see this sort of comment a lot on threads like this where the dead are from 'closer to home'.
Yet, arguably, far worse goes on around the world in Africa and the middle east on a daily basis and no one seems to bat an eyelid.
Funny how sensitive people get when it's white Europeans or Americans that are the victims.
In unstable countries and places where conflict and war are unfortunately common one gets used to hearing news about violence and death. When a passenger jet gets blown out of the sky by a missile or passenger planes are flown into landmark sky scrapers then yes, it certainly gets more attention. The MH jet that went missing received non-stop coverage here in China due to the high number of Chinese nationals onboard, the mentioned the other nationalities but the focus is always on the home nation.Yet, arguably, far worse goes on around the world in Africa and the middle east on a daily basis and no one seems to bat an eyelid.
Funny how sensitive people get when it's white Europeans or Americans that are the victims.
News outlets are well aware personal stories garner the most attention, so they focus on that which is closest to home. UK newspapers will always look for the British angle, why wouldn't they? It just so happened that the poor Brits aboard were white. Nothing to do with colour old chap
toohuge said:
eccles said:
I see this sort of comment a lot on threads like this where the dead are from 'closer to home'.
Yet, arguably, far worse goes on around the world in Africa and the middle east on a daily basis and no one seems to bat an eyelid.
Funny how sensitive people get when it's white Europeans or Americans that are the victims.
So when those poor girls were kidnapped from their school in Africa nothing was mentioned in the media... oh wait...Yet, arguably, far worse goes on around the world in Africa and the middle east on a daily basis and no one seems to bat an eyelid.
Funny how sensitive people get when it's white Europeans or Americans that are the victims.
GloverMart said:
eccles said:
Steffan said:
Quite the most appalling sights I have seen for some years. I do hope never to see such barbarity again.
I see this sort of comment a lot on threads like this where the dead are from 'closer to home'.Yet, arguably, far worse goes on around the world in Africa and the middle east on a daily basis and no one seems to bat an eyelid.
Funny how sensitive people get when it's white Europeans or Americans that are the victims.
It's nothing to do with whether the victims are black or white, rich or poor or anything else. It's an awful tragedy whereby 300 innocent people have lost their lives doing something that a lot of us do regularly, fly on a plane. It brings out the "Wow, that could have been us" feelings in all of us.
And if slightly more notice has been taken in the "white" people who died, maybe that's because we are a predominantly white country and the Brits who died in the crash are white. No doubt the Dutch version of PH is concentrating on the Dutch that died, the Malaysian PH on the Malaysians etc etc.
In a thread that has sunk belly low at times, that comment is down there amongst the very worst.
I'm just pointing out a different point of view to you.In my opinion some dead are more equal to others.
eccles said:
And they still haven't been returned, yet never get mentioned in the news........
Depressing though it is, beyond a certain point and other than perhaps anniversaries, what would you actually mention? "Kidnapped girls remain kidnapped, we're still looking for them". What would that actually achieve, other than doubtless creating arguments that "why are they still in the news when [insert other event] is happening?". eccles said:
toohuge said:
eccles said:
I see this sort of comment a lot on threads like this where the dead are from 'closer to home'.
Yet, arguably, far worse goes on around the world in Africa and the middle east on a daily basis and no one seems to bat an eyelid.
Funny how sensitive people get when it's white Europeans or Americans that are the victims.
So when those poor girls were kidnapped from their school in Africa nothing was mentioned in the media... oh wait...Yet, arguably, far worse goes on around the world in Africa and the middle east on a daily basis and no one seems to bat an eyelid.
Funny how sensitive people get when it's white Europeans or Americans that are the victims.
JensenA said:
eccles said:
toohuge said:
eccles said:
I see this sort of comment a lot on threads like this where the dead are from 'closer to home'.
Yet, arguably, far worse goes on around the world in Africa and the middle east on a daily basis and no one seems to bat an eyelid.
Funny how sensitive people get when it's white Europeans or Americans that are the victims.
So when those poor girls were kidnapped from their school in Africa nothing was mentioned in the media... oh wait...Yet, arguably, far worse goes on around the world in Africa and the middle east on a daily basis and no one seems to bat an eyelid.
Funny how sensitive people get when it's white Europeans or Americans that are the victims.
eccles said:
Have you seen them mentioned in the press apart from in passing?
How are they being mentioned in Asia?We have a habit of identifying with "people like us". It's not "bad" or "wrong". It's natural.
Although it does remind me of the "Not the 9 O'Clock" spoof news report on the listing of casualties in order of importance.
Apologies if this has been mentioned before ...
Russia Today is being told to write some wonderful lies :
Russia Today is being told to write some wonderful lies :
Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov said:
“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”
No, the operational ceiling of a fully loaded SU-25 is 5k. 7k clean. Of course, the russian wikipedia page for the SU-25 has been edited to match the facts of the RT article, which now claims a 10k ceiling. Apparently the edits came from a Russian IP address.So the flight recorders have finally been handed over, and the relief on the face of the Malaysian chap is plain to see. The rebels ARE human after all - is the message.
But quite what everybody is expecting them to reveal is beyond me.
Altitude - already known, so irrelevant. Heading - already known. Speed - already approximated, but irrelevant.
The only partially useful data would be it's grid reference when cabin pressure and altitude were lost. But that won't pinpoint the missile launch site because missiles can fly a very long way at an angle relative to the ground.
They need to be concentrating on finding exhibit A - the offending BUK launcher. And DNA the thing to help find exhibit B - the trigger happy balaclava-clad meat head that pressed the launch button.
But quite what everybody is expecting them to reveal is beyond me.
Altitude - already known, so irrelevant. Heading - already known. Speed - already approximated, but irrelevant.
The only partially useful data would be it's grid reference when cabin pressure and altitude were lost. But that won't pinpoint the missile launch site because missiles can fly a very long way at an angle relative to the ground.
They need to be concentrating on finding exhibit A - the offending BUK launcher. And DNA the thing to help find exhibit B - the trigger happy balaclava-clad meat head that pressed the launch button.
Cobnapint said:
So the flight recorders have finally been handed over, and the relief on the face of the Malaysian chap is plain to see. The rebels ARE human after all - is the message.
But quite what everybody is expecting them to reveal is beyond me.
Altitude - already known, so irrelevant. Heading - already known. Speed - already approximated, but irrelevant.
The only partially useful data would be it's grid reference when cabin pressure and altitude were lost. But that won't pinpoint the missile launch site because missiles can fly a very long way at an angle relative to the ground.
They need to be concentrating on finding exhibit A - the offending BUK launcher. And DNA the thing to help find exhibit B - the trigger happy balaclava-clad meat head that pressed the launch button.
The Americans hid the flight recorders from IR655 and I always wondered why. The international condemnation for that move was more restrained. From what I can gather, these would negate the suggestion that the plane was in a dive and so could be seen as a threat. But quite what everybody is expecting them to reveal is beyond me.
Altitude - already known, so irrelevant. Heading - already known. Speed - already approximated, but irrelevant.
The only partially useful data would be it's grid reference when cabin pressure and altitude were lost. But that won't pinpoint the missile launch site because missiles can fly a very long way at an angle relative to the ground.
They need to be concentrating on finding exhibit A - the offending BUK launcher. And DNA the thing to help find exhibit B - the trigger happy balaclava-clad meat head that pressed the launch button.
I think that these FRs can be used to disprove allegations that the plane was, somehow, seen as a threat to those on the ground or that, perhaps, the plane was flying lower than 'agreed' and, obviously, as stated.
However, they seem to have been used more as a symbol.
Cobnapint said:
So the flight recorders have finally been handed over, and the relief on the face of the Malaysian chap is plain to see. The rebels ARE human after all - is the message.
But quite what everybody is expecting them to reveal is beyond me.
Altitude - already known, so irrelevant. Heading - already known. Speed - already approximated, but irrelevant.
The only partially useful data would be it's grid reference when cabin pressure and altitude were lost. But that won't pinpoint the missile launch site because missiles can fly a very long way at an angle relative to the ground.
They need to be concentrating on finding exhibit A - the offending BUK launcher. And DNA the thing to help find exhibit B - the trigger happy balaclava-clad meat head that pressed the launch button.
As I understand it, the FDR and the CVR are separate items? I haven't seen any reference to the CVR(s?) being located/handed over? I guess it depends on exactly where the missile struck (previously said to be midships) but would the crew have had the opportunity to react before decompression got them - perhaps saying what they thought had happened, e.g. "WTF was that - have we been hit?" etc?But quite what everybody is expecting them to reveal is beyond me.
Altitude - already known, so irrelevant. Heading - already known. Speed - already approximated, but irrelevant.
The only partially useful data would be it's grid reference when cabin pressure and altitude were lost. But that won't pinpoint the missile launch site because missiles can fly a very long way at an angle relative to the ground.
They need to be concentrating on finding exhibit A - the offending BUK launcher. And DNA the thing to help find exhibit B - the trigger happy balaclava-clad meat head that pressed the launch button.
petemurphy said:
can the black boxes be tampered with? theres been plenty of time to get them to experts in moscow and back? is it possible?
According to an aviation expert on the bbc news yes they can, removing data can be done as can replacing data that has been tampered with and still appears normal but this is much harder to do soGassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff