Malaysian Airlines 777 down on Ukraine / Russia Border?

[jmorgan]

If it is recorded information then I suppose how hard it is to get at the medium it is on? How well that is done I imagine depends on how easy are they open without no one suspecting.. I mean noticing?

[clonmult]

petemurphy said:

can the black boxes be tampered with? theres been plenty of time to get them to experts in moscow and back? is it possible?

If they are the same group of experts that Moscow have editing various wikipedia pages, it will be fairly clear if there has been interference.

[rich85uk]

Perfect timing.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28416532

[petemurphy]

rich85uk said:

Perfect timing.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28416532

bit naughty they have waited till now and played their card

[Finlandese]

CAPP0 said:

Cobnapint said:

So the flight recorders have finally been handed over, and the relief on the face of the Malaysian chap is plain to see. The rebels ARE human after all - is the message.

But quite what everybody is expecting them to reveal is beyond me.

Altitude - already known, so irrelevant. Heading - already known. Speed - already approximated, but irrelevant.

The only partially useful data would be it's grid reference when cabin pressure and altitude were lost. But that won't pinpoint the missile launch site because missiles can fly a very long way at an angle relative to the ground.

They need to be concentrating on finding exhibit A - the offending BUK launcher. And DNA the thing to help find exhibit B - the trigger happy balaclava-clad meat head that pressed the launch button.

As I understand it, the FDR and the CVR are separate items? I haven't seen any reference to the CVR(s?) being located/handed over? I guess it depends on exactly where the missile struck (previously said to be midships) but would the crew have had the opportunity to react before decompression got them - perhaps saying what they thought had happened, e.g. "WTF was that - have we been hit?" etc?

The picture of the shrapnel penetrated cockpit skin leads me to think that the people on flight deck might have been the first people to die.

[marshalla]

Cobnapint said:

And DNA the thing to help find exhibit B - the trigger happy balaclava-clad meat head that pressed the launch button.

Yeah - because nobody else has touched it, ever. Honest.

[petemurphy]

well judged apology from the sky reporter

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/22/mh17-...

[marshalla]

petemurphy said:

well judged apology from the sky reporter

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/22/mh17-...

I don't see any apology there at all, just a list of excuses and attempts to justify what he did. A real apology would be much, much shorter.

[M4cruiser]

Cobnapint said:

So the flight recorders have finally been handed over,
But quite what everybody is expecting them to reveal is beyond me.

Altitude - already known, so irrelevant. Heading - already known. Speed - already approximated, but irrelevant.

You're jumping ahead here - it's isn't unknown for the flight recorder to show something we've missed. Altitude already known? Not necessarily, the aircraft may have gone wrong, causing it to alter course and then become a target.

Best keep an open mind.

[clonmult]

petemurphy said:

well judged apology from the sky reporter

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/22/mh17-...

No, not well judged at all. Anyone with an ounce of humanity wouldn't have even begun to start going through someones belongings under such circumstances, there is no excuse for what he did.

[fathomfive]

petemurphy said:

well judged apology from the sky reporter

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/22/mh17-...

Shame he used 'gaffe' to describe his mistake though.

[Vaud]

fathomfive said:

Shame he used 'gaffe' to describe his mistake though.

Why?
Gaffe - an unintentional act or remark causing embarrassment to its originator; a blunder.

It was a blunder, it wasn't premeditated or malicious.

[Steffan]

CAPP0 said:

Cobnapint said:

So the flight recorders have finally been handed over, and the relief on the face of the Malaysian chap is plain to see. The rebels ARE human after all - is the message.

But quite what everybody is expecting them to reveal is beyond me.

Altitude - already known, so irrelevant. Heading - already known. Speed - already approximated, but irrelevant.

The only partially useful data would be it's grid reference when cabin pressure and altitude were lost. But that won't pinpoint the missile launch site because missiles can fly a very long way at an angle relative to the ground.

They need to be concentrating on finding exhibit A - the offending BUK launcher. And DNA the thing to help find exhibit B - the trigger happy balaclava-clad meat head that pressed the launch button.

As I understand it, the FDR and the CVR are separate items? I haven't seen any reference to the CVR(s?) being located/handed over? I guess it depends on exactly where the missile struck (previously said to be midships) but would the crew have had the opportunity to react before decompression got them - perhaps saying what they thought had happened, e.g. "WTF was that - have we been hit?" etc?

That and all the other sounds and effects that may have been recorded are clearly what may be gained. Equally it may produce nothing tangible. But at least there is now a chance of some detail from the plane itself. I think in this case we know what the probable outcome will be and we certainly know the crash site itself. Tragic event that requires as full an explanation as can be achieved given the circumstances.

[petemurphy]

clonmult said:

No, not well judged at all. Anyone with an ounce of humanity wouldn't have even begun to start going through someones belongings under such circumstances, there is no excuse for what he did.

everyones human everyone makes mistakes. except on forums of course.

[Puggit]

FT publishes picture which looks like damage from a missile strike



http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/1d6a9ac2-10e3-11e4-b116-...

[Pistom]

petemurphy said:

everyones human everyone makes mistakes. except on forums of course.

The job of the reporter is to ask questions and record images to inform us of the fuller picture. If the contents of the bag could in any way have contributed to the information being gathered it may have been acceptable but it didn't. It was pure sensationalism.

I don't know how I would react if I was there but accept that people make mistakes and in the context of the overall event, matters little.

The apology is not a very good one and feels more like arse covering but that seems to be the accepted norm these days.

I wish I had Sky so I could cancel it.

Edited by Pistom on Tuesday 22 July 11:23

[Westy Carl]

petemurphy said:

rich85uk said:

Perfect timing.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28416532

bit naughty they have waited till now and played their card

Meaningless, I bet Putin is p*****g himself if that's the best we can do.

[clonmult]

petemurphy said:

clonmult said:

No, not well judged at all. Anyone with an ounce of humanity wouldn't have even begun to start going through someones belongings under such circumstances, there is no excuse for what he did.

everyones human everyone makes mistakes. except on forums of course.

Sure, we all make mistakes. But he was making headlines instead of reporting headlines. It was chronically insensitive and inexcusable - I'd love to get my sisters opinion, one of her friends was on the flight. If that had been your families belongings, what would you be saying if that is the first you saw of your dearly departed friends/families belongings?

No, there are mistakes and then there are fundamental failings and showing complete incompetence.

[MarkRSi]

clonmult said:

Apologies if this has been mentioned before ...

Russia Today is being told to write some wonderful lies :

Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov said:

“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”

No, the operational ceiling of a fully loaded SU-25 is 5k. 7k clean. Of course, the russian wikipedia page for the SU-25 has been edited to match the facts of the RT article, which now claims a 10k ceiling. Apparently the edits came from a Russian IP address.

Why an SU-25 ground attack aircraft? Don't the Ukrainians have MiG29/SU27 fighter jets (or has the UAF page been 'edited' as well? )

[Puggit]

MarkRSi said:

Why an SU-25 ground attack aircraft? Don't the Ukrainians have MiG29/SU27 fighter jets (or has the UAF page been 'edited' as well? )

The Ukraine isn't facing an air threat, so no need to deploy air superiority fighters. They need ground attack aircraft to attack the ground based rebels.