Malaysian Airlines 777 down on Ukraine / Russia Border?

[XJ Flyer]

BHC said:

XJ Flyer said:

As I've said that's exactly Devalera's and the provisional/continuity IRA's position in the case of Northern Ireland.Whereas mine matches Michael Collins' and the British government's position regards that issue.IE partition.Which suggests that it's the British government that's mixing and matching to suit it's agenda.

These ramblings about the IRA and Ireland still are not relevant to anything in this thread though.

It was a reply to the comment concerning the situation in Ukraine being about the nationalist side fighting a war of unification against the Russian government backed loyalists seeking partition in Eastern Ukraine.The description in that case being a supposed 'Russian stitch up'.That's obviously supposedly being implemented by loyalist 'rebels'.Which as I said is exactly how Devalera's provisional and the continuity IRA saw/see Britain's and the loyalist community's position in Northern Ireland.So why the difference in British policy regards Northern Ireland,as opposed to Eastern Ukraine.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Wednesday 23 July 20:51

[BHC]

XJ Flyer said:

It was a reply to the comment concerning the situation in Ukraine being about the nationalist side fighting a war of unification against the Russian government backed loyalists seeking partition in Eastern Ukraine.The description in that case being a supposed 'Russian stitch up'.That's obviously supposedly being implemented by loyalist 'rebels'.Which as I said is exactly how Devalera's provisional and the continuity IRA saw/see Britain's and the loyalist community's position in Northern Ireland.So why the difference in British policy regards Northern Ireland,as opposed to Eastern Ukraine.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Wednesday 23 July 20:51

I understand that, but it still makes no odds. And there are some differences.

Like the UK isn't arming thugs to shoot down aeroplanes in Ireland.

[lord trumpton]

clonmult said:

KareemK said:

Has anyone seen today's Daily Mail article putting some of the 'guilt' of this onto Germany, France and Italy?

Unbelievable.

It is getting increasingly difficult to read the "articles" on the mail. The comments are equally impossible to comprehend. And of course the headline never matches the actual detail.

I think that article could well get the DM into a spot of bother. How that slander passed the editor is beyond me

[Vaud]

lord trumpton said:

I think that article could well get the DM into a spot of bother. How that slander passed the editor is beyond me

You mean libel. And I think it is hard to libel a head of state, and they certainly won't take action.

[AreOut]

Boydie88 said:

Yeah I came across that, it becomes even more suspect when you read into his history about serving for Russia. This more and more looks like a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

The intercepted conversation is one of the biggest leads, yet there doesn't seem to be much mention of it on recent coverage or by any of the world leaders.

Strelkov did the same job in Yugoslavia back in 1991. Since Yugoslavia was about to join NATO&EU(the same situation with Ukraine now) he has been sent with group of operatives and they have started all the troubles because Russia considered strong Yugoslavia in NATO a very bad geopolitic situation for them.

Milosevic brother was an ambassador in Moscow for a long time and his wife and son are hiding in Moscow from serbian authorities, kinda explains it all when you see where is Yanukovich and probably his whole family.

[Beyond Rational]

RenOHH said:

Photo from the Guardian showing A LOT of shrapnel damage. It really looks like it came from the cockpit area.

Without seeing the rest of the plane, that's a bit of a deductive leap.

[2013BRM]

0a said:

creampuff said:

I thought that was hugely impressive and moving, thousands of ordinary Dutch people lining the cortege route. I've never seen anything like it. The Dutch have given back the dignity to the victims which they did not have in the fields of Ukraine.

I have to fully agree with these sentiments and the thoughts in the post to which this was a reply.

Well done to the Dutch for such a human and dignified day - it's about time the victims were treated properly, and as hard as the next few months will be we can but hope that the images from today will at least partially replace the appalling images from the last week or so in the memories of the families of the victims.

agreed again, and an eye opening example of humanity taking back some dignity from Putin and his thugs, Russia has got some big problems coming

[2013BRM]

Beyond Rational said:

RenOHH said:

Photo from the Guardian showing A LOT of shrapnel damage. It really looks like it came from the cockpit area.

Without seeing the rest of the plane, that's a bit of a deductive leap.

Not really, it is from the lower cockpit area, there are multiple small diameter perforations at an angle of about 50 to 60 degrees and smoke damage. Speaking from a standpoint of someone who has seen this type of damage. It looks like a missile hit it near enough head on

[Beati Dogu]

RenOHH said:

Photo from the Guardian showing A LOT of shrapnel damage. It really looks like it came from the cockpit area.

As already mentioned on page 84.

[irocfan]

a typically Polandballs take on things...

http://polandballcomics.tumblr.com/image/926225556...

Edited by irocfan on Wednesday 23 July 22:49

[joema]

irocfan said:

a typically Polandballs take on things...

[anonymous-user]

Beati Dogu said:

As already mentioned on page 84.

Excuse me for not being on PH in the afternoon of a Wednesday when I'm at work.

It's getting quite hard to sift through all the off topic IRA stuff.

[Mojocvh]

2013BRM said:

Beyond Rational said:

RenOHH said:

Photo from the Guardian showing A LOT of shrapnel damage. It really looks like it came from the cockpit area.

Without seeing the rest of the plane, that's a bit of a deductive leap.

Not really, it is from the lower cockpit area, there are multiple small diameter perforations at an angle of about 50 to 60 degrees and smoke damage. Speaking from a standpoint of someone who has seen this type of damage. It looks like a missile hit it near enough head on

If it was truly head on, that is with no offset, it would be a hittile.
Despite the enormous closing speeds these weapons are fused primarily to destroy the pilots/crew. The most efficient homing method is with the weapon and aircraft closing, this give a massive speed signature [doppler] for the missile to follow/track. The next is from astern with a reduced doppler and proximity fused on the rear of the aircraft.
The least effective is approaching abeam as the doppler of the target merges with the M-> speed over the ground and the M-> locks to terra firma..

[Stelvio1]

XJ Flyer said:

BHC said:

XJ Flyer said:

As I've said that's exactly Devalera's and the provisional/continuity IRA's position in the case of Northern Ireland.Whereas mine matches Michael Collins' and the British government's position regards that issue.IE partition.Which suggests that it's the British government that's mixing and matching to suit it's agenda.

These ramblings about the IRA and Ireland still are not relevant to anything in this thread though.

It was a reply to the comment concerning the situation in Ukraine being about the nationalist side fighting a war of unification against the Russian government backed loyalists seeking partition in Eastern Ukraine.The description in that case being a supposed 'Russian stitch up'.That's obviously supposedly being implemented by loyalist 'rebels'.Which as I said is exactly how Devalera's provisional and the continuity IRA saw/see Britain's and the loyalist community's position in Northern Ireland.So why the difference in British policy regards Northern Ireland,as opposed to Eastern Ukraine.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Wednesday 23 July 20:51

Do you reckon? - I do - that it's time you bailed off this thread? - you really are seriously meandering and diverting attention from what are the important matters

[JensenA]

^ +1. You have some serious anti British/West/EU issues going on in your head. You attempt to justify Putin's and Russia's tactics by comparing them to the actions and policies of Britain in Northern Ireland, that's a totally different scenario, but more importantly, if you are so critical of Britain for what it did in NI, and equate it with Russia's current policy in the Ukraine, then surely you should be critical of Russia for doing the same thing in the Ukraine. Perhaps it would be a better idea if you started a new thread where you can discuss and justify Russia's policy of supporting it's blatant attempt to de-stabilise an independent Nation simply because they don't like the fact that it wants closer ties with the EU and the West.

[Vaud]

I think the free debate is important. The Brits have done some truly awful things as a nation state (not talking about rogue soldiers) and arguably through partitioning and installation of puppet govts caused many of the current tension points in the world.

But I do think that is better discussed elsewhere.

[Puggit]

It's dusty in here...

Fotograaf Ton Versteeg nam deze foto tijdens de landing op Eindhoven Airport. De saamhorigheid is indrukwekkend. / Photographer Ton Versteeg took this picture during landing at Eindhoven Airport. The togetherness is impressive.

[Digga]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

finally some respect for the victims.

Bit harsh on the Ukranian villagers who festooned the site with flowers, shed genuine tears and held a memorial service this week. All this whilst themselves living in a war zone - the 777 was not far off obliterating their whole village.

[sa_20v]

RenOHH said:

I'm surprised the propaganda machine hasn't attributed the above image to an event similar to EgyptAir's 777 cockpit fire...

[DMN]

sa_20v said:

RenOHH said:

I'm surprised the propaganda machine hasn't attributed the above image to an event similar to EgyptAir's 777 cockpit fire...

For a good reason, one was caused by a fire and the other from a proximity kill caused by a SAM.