Malaysian Airlines 777 down on Ukraine / Russia Border?

[XJ Flyer]

greygoose said:

XJ Flyer said:

The best thing for 'the thread' is to make the case for settling the issues in the region in a way which stops further fighting between all sides.

Giving Russia whatever it wants is not settling the issues though.

Which is just what Devalera and the provisional/continuity IRA said/say in the case of Ireland and their fight against the loyalist unionist British community and their British government/military backers.Unlike Collins' view of settling the issues according to British terms.The really stupid thing is that the stakes are ( a lot ) higher in the case of Ukraine than Ireland.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 26th July 01:29

[Hooli]

hidetheelephants said:

Mr Sparkle said:

Should be able to see it all on satellite now I would have thought.

It might be a software issue and just adjusting the speed gate will be enough, but that needs a radar geek to pass judgement; I doubt satellites are able to reliably spot mortar bombs and <6" shells in flight.

I can recall stories of 16" naval shells being seen on radar in WW2, I expect modern radars are a bit better & could see small shells if they didn't screen out 'noise' from small returns.

[XJ Flyer]

Rocksteadyeddie said:

Beyond Rational said:

Maybe I've missed something, but how is firing missiles from one country into another in order to destroy the armed troops of that nation, not an act of war?

Or sending special forces in to "secure" an area...

We'd do well to stay well away from this fast emerging st-show.

The problem is the EU federalists that we're lumbered with at home would prefer us to start a fight with Russia instead.You can bet they'll see it as 'rebels' in the case of anyone who stands against the EU in Ukraine today and British 'rebels' in the case of those here who want to secede from the federalist project in the long term assuming we don't get out now.While obviously calling us racists and fruitcakes is considered by them as enough for now.

[XJ Flyer]

Hooli said:

hidetheelephants said:

Mr Sparkle said:

Should be able to see it all on satellite now I would have thought.

It might be a software issue and just adjusting the speed gate will be enough, but that needs a radar geek to pass judgement; I doubt satellites are able to reliably spot mortar bombs and <6" shells in flight.

I can recall stories of 16" naval shells being seen on radar in WW2, I expect modern radars are a bit better & could see small shells if they didn't screen out 'noise' from small returns.

The problem being that by the time you seem them flying on radar it's too late to get out of the way.While if you're using the radar signature to target the firing point you're going to need something that can outrange and out gun what they are firing at you.As for sending airpower against Russian ground forces see nuclear power and the definition of escalation.So who really wants to end the world as we know it instead of doing a deal with Russia over Ukraine and NATO eastward expansion.

[JensenA]

XJ Flyer said:

greygoose said:

XJ Flyer said:

The best thing for 'the thread' is to make the case for settling the issues in the region in a way which stops further fighting between all sides.

Giving Russia whatever it wants is not settling the issues though.

Which is just what Devalera and the provisional/continuity IRA said/say in the case of Ireland and their fight against the loyalist unionist British community and their British government/military backers.Unlike Collins' view of settling the issues according to British terms.The really stupid thing is that the stakes are ( a lot ) higher in the case of Ukraine than Ireland.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 26th July 01:29

I do wish you would stop babbling about Ireland/IRA at every opportunity. It's totally irrelevant to the situation in Ukraine. A more accurate analogy would be a situation where English people have flooded into, say Aberdeenshire, and were now taking up Arms and fighting and killing Scottish nationlists in an attempt to create an independent Aberdeenshire that remained part of the UK.
The EU and NATO have not invaded Ukraine, it is entirely up to the Ukraininan government and people to decide wether or not to join the EU.

[0a]

XJ Flyer said:

Which is just what Devalera and the provisional/continuity IRA said/say in the case of Ireland and their fight against the loyalist unionist British community and their British government/military backers.Unlike Collins' view of settling the issues according to British terms.The really stupid thing is that the stakes are ( a lot ) higher in the case of Ukraine than Ireland.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 26th July 01:29

I'm really struggling to see the relevance of the reference to the IRA.

[Mr Sparkle]

hidetheelephants said:

Mr Sparkle said:

Should be able to see it all on satellite now I would have thought.

It might be a software issue and just adjusting the speed gate will be enough, but that needs a radar geek to pass judgement; I doubt satellites are able to reliably spot mortar bombs and <6" shells in flight.

But they can spot the troops firing them, the ammo being used etc. You don't need to see the rounds in flight to have enough evidence to know that they were fired.

Edit: I din't mean tracking in real time, but that US / Europe etc. would know that it was the Russian shooting over the boarder rather then the rebels.

Edited by Mr Sparkle on Saturday 26th July 10:08

[skyrover]

ever wonder what happened to the possessions of the victims of MH17?





Zolotosya: A mascara from Amsterdam, or better from the field, well, you understand…
A: F*ck, where have you found it?
Z: A marauder, one of my acquitances, brought it, let’s put it this way…
P: Is it a joke?
A: It’s horrible, I would never use it!
Z to P: No, many things were taken and are now being used by various people – from pincers to clothes
K: You never stop to surprise me…

[hidetheelephants]

Mr Sparkle said:

hidetheelephants said:

Mr Sparkle said:

Should be able to see it all on satellite now I would have thought.

It might be a software issue and just adjusting the speed gate will be enough, but that needs a radar geek to pass judgement; I doubt satellites are able to reliably spot mortar bombs and <6" shells in flight.

But they can spot the troops firing them, the ammo being used etc. You don't need to see the rounds in flight to have enough evidence to know that they were fired.

Edit: I din't mean tracking in real time, but that US / Europe etc. would know that it was the Russian shooting over the boarder rather then the rebels.

Oh yes, keeping tabs on that is straightforward enough, but if it ends up in the Hague then evidence of the ballistic paths starting in Russia will be necessary. Just having evidence of the artillery units being in place isn't enough of a 'smoking gun', particularly if Vlad is playing maskirovka games.

[King Herald]

MiniMan64 said:

onyx39 said:

just seen a link on Facebook... the truth about what really happened!

I am amazed at the rubbish some people put on the internet.

http://humansarefree.com/2014/07/busted-mh-17-was-...

The internet is truly a strange and bizarre place.

The US hijacks an entire aircraft of foreign nationals, kills them and then blows up the plane over the Ukraine several months later?

We read a week ago that there were apparently 'rotten decomposed bodies' found on the freshly crashed plane, and large quantities of medical equipment and serum, so maybe there is some mileage to a conspiracy here?

I hardly think anybody has been swapping planes, but there is talk of a large group of AIDS experts being on board en route to Australia, so maybe we have a 'Walking Dead' scenario going on?

[XJ Flyer]

0a said:

XJ Flyer said:

Which is just what Devalera and the provisional/continuity IRA said/say in the case of Ireland and their fight against the loyalist unionist British community and their British government/military backers.Unlike Collins' view of settling the issues according to British terms.The really stupid thing is that the stakes are ( a lot ) higher in the case of Ukraine than Ireland.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 26th July 01:29

I'm really struggling to see the relevance of the reference to the IRA.

It's more case of the Irish example being an inconvenient fact that destroys the pro EU expansionist agenda in Ukraine.So not surprisingly the EU's supporters prefer to just gloss over that glaring hypocricy by trying to ignore it.

FYI the Provisional/continuity IRA was/is fighting for exactly the same thing in Ireland as the Ukrainian nationalists are fighting for in Ukraine.That being a united Ireland/Ukraine.

Which totally ignores the wishes of the British Ulster Unionist/Russian loyalist community in Eastern Ukraine/Northern Ireland.Both of which being backed by their relevant governments/military.

The only difference in this case being that any deal, involving the type of partition,as that which formed the Anglo Irish treaty between Collins and the British government,in the case of Ireland and Northern Ireland,is off the table in this case.All because of the simple matter of the EU's/NATO's continuing plans for eastward expansion using Ukrainian nationalism and economic sweeteners regards same to do it.Thereby turning a small local dispute of similar type to the Irish issue into a potential west v Russia clash with all the implications of same.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 26th July 18:31

[Puggit]

skyrover said:

ever wonder what happened to the possessions of the victims of MH17?





Zolotosya: A mascara from Amsterdam, or better from the field, well, you understand…
A: F*ck, where have you found it?
Z: A marauder, one of my acquitances, brought it, let’s put it this way…
P: Is it a joke?
A: It’s horrible, I would never use it!
Z to P: No, many things were taken and are now being used by various people – from pincers to clothes
K: You never stop to surprise me…

Credit cards and phones being used too according to the Wail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2703704/MH...

[Puggit]

Lawyers preparing class action against Putin: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/u...

[AreOut]

so, the parents and relatives of all those children from Syria and Iraq that got their throats cut by "rebels" supported from West are entitled to sue Obama and Cameron?

[skyrover]

Satellite photo of Russian artillery attacking Ukrainian troops from Russian soil



6 hours of shelling today



Ukraine vs Russia tank battle possible near Marynivka soon. Russia transferred up to 10 tanks last night.

[John D.]

AreOut said:

so, the parents and relatives of all those children from Syria and Iraq that got their throats cut by "rebels" supported from West are entitled to sue Obama and Cameron?

[AreOut]

well it's the same logic no?

[vonuber]

skyrover said:

Satellite photo of Russian artillery attacking Ukrainian troops from Russian soil



6 hours of shelling today



Ukraine vs Russia tank battle possible near Marynivka soon. Russia transferred up to 10 tanks last night.

What's that got to do with the IRA?

[XJ Flyer]

vonuber said:

skyrover said:

Satellite photo of Russian artillery attacking Ukrainian troops from Russian soil



6 hours of shelling today



Ukraine vs Russia tank battle possible near Marynivka soon. Russia transferred up to 10 tanks last night.

What's that got to do with the IRA?

'If' the Irish government had taken Devalera's position instead of Collins' and 'if' it had been armed to the same level as the Ukrainian army is,everything.Because that's exactly what would have happened in Ireland between British/Ulster loyalist forces and Irish forces regarding Northern Ireland.

Instead of what actually took place in the form of an agreement between the two governments for partition that reflected the wishes of the Ulster Unionist/Loyalist population in the North.

Which in 'this' case would obviously translate as an agreement between the Ukrainian and Russian governments for the partition of Ukraine.Which of course doesn't suit the EU expansionist agenda.

[Octoposse]

JensenA said:

. . . it is entirely up to the Ukraininan government and people to decide wether or not to join the EU.

Quite so. And the answer was "no". So we encouraged regime change, and the rest is, as they say, history . . .