Malaysian Airlines 777 down on Ukraine / Russia Border?
Discussion
Mojocvh said:
XJ Flyer said:
vonuber said:
XJ Flyer said:
No more Russian Kremlin bot than Kennedy was in using the velvet glove approach by doing the deal with Kruschev to remove the missile threat to Russia in Turkey.After using the iron fist approach of threatening to end the world if Russia wouldn't first remove the threat to America in Cuba.The idea of Russia seeing Eastern Ukraine as part of Russia is no threat to the west.While the eastward expansion of NATO up to Russia's borders certainly is a threat to Russia.
I didn't know they had comments on internet articles in the 1960's. Blimey, learn something new every day.Go write for RT in future, 'cos nobody's listening anymore.
XJ Flyer said:
Mojocvh said:
XJ Flyer said:
Mojocvh said:
XJ Flyer said:
vonuber said:
Article on Putin:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/29/putin...
At least ~90% of the comments seem to be Russian Kremlin bots. It's truly astonishing.
No more Russian Kremlin bot than Kennedy was in using the velvet glove approach by doing the deal with Kruschev to remove the missile threat to Russia in Turkey.After using the iron fist approach of threatening to end the world if Russia wouldn't first remove the threat to America in Cuba.The idea of Russia seeing Eastern Ukraine as part of Russia is no threat to the west.While the eastward expansion of NATO up to Russia's borders certainly is a threat to Russia. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/29/putin...
At least ~90% of the comments seem to be Russian Kremlin bots. It's truly astonishing.
However you fail to either explain or rationalist the dead people on MH37, or the dead Ukrainian citizens that your favoured regime has slaughtered in defiance of International Law.
Please carry on ignoring the rights of human beings enshrined in the UN charter.
Unless, of course, you know better than the rest of the civilised world.
We await your reply with unequivocal enthusiasm.
Yeah.
"I think there's two sides shooting at each other" no s
t.EFA.. I saw your name on a marmalade jar but I was wrong, it said Thick Cut....
t storm.XJ Flyer said:
Mojocvh said:
XJ Flyer said:
vonuber said:
XJ Flyer said:
No more Russian Kremlin bot than Kennedy was in using the velvet glove approach by doing the deal with Kruschev to remove the missile threat to Russia in Turkey.After using the iron fist approach of threatening to end the world if Russia wouldn't first remove the threat to America in Cuba.The idea of Russia seeing Eastern Ukraine as part of Russia is no threat to the west.While the eastward expansion of NATO up to Russia's borders certainly is a threat to Russia.
I didn't know they had comments on internet articles in the 1960's. Blimey, learn something new every day.Go write for RT in future, 'cos nobody's listening anymore.
Mojocvh said:
XJ Flyer said:
Mojocvh said:
XJ Flyer said:
Mojocvh said:
XJ Flyer said:
vonuber said:
Article on Putin:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/29/putin...
At least ~90% of the comments seem to be Russian Kremlin bots. It's truly astonishing.
No more Russian Kremlin bot than Kennedy was in using the velvet glove approach by doing the deal with Kruschev to remove the missile threat to Russia in Turkey.After using the iron fist approach of threatening to end the world if Russia wouldn't first remove the threat to America in Cuba.The idea of Russia seeing Eastern Ukraine as part of Russia is no threat to the west.While the eastward expansion of NATO up to Russia's borders certainly is a threat to Russia. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/29/putin...
At least ~90% of the comments seem to be Russian Kremlin bots. It's truly astonishing.
However you fail to either explain or rationalist the dead people on MH37, or the dead Ukrainian citizens that your favoured regime has slaughtered in defiance of International Law.
Please carry on ignoring the rights of human beings enshrined in the UN charter.
Unless, of course, you know better than the rest of the civilised world.
We await your reply with unequivocal enthusiasm.
Yeah.
"I think there's two sides shooting at each other" no s
t.EFA.. I saw your name on a marmalade jar but I was wrong, it said Thick Cut....
t storm.XJ Flyer said:
Mojocvh said:
XJ Flyer said:
Mojocvh said:
XJ Flyer said:
Mojocvh said:
XJ Flyer said:
vonuber said:
Article on Putin:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/29/putin...
At least ~90% of the comments seem to be Russian Kremlin bots. It's truly astonishing.
No more Russian Kremlin bot than Kennedy was in using the velvet glove approach by doing the deal with Kruschev to remove the missile threat to Russia in Turkey.After using the iron fist approach of threatening to end the world if Russia wouldn't first remove the threat to America in Cuba.The idea of Russia seeing Eastern Ukraine as part of Russia is no threat to the west.While the eastward expansion of NATO up to Russia's borders certainly is a threat to Russia. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/29/putin...
At least ~90% of the comments seem to be Russian Kremlin bots. It's truly astonishing.
However you fail to either explain or rationalist the dead people on MH37, or the dead Ukrainian citizens that your favoured regime has slaughtered in defiance of International Law.
Please carry on ignoring the rights of human beings enshrined in the UN charter.
Unless, of course, you know better than the rest of the civilised world.
We await your reply with unequivocal enthusiasm.
Yeah.
"I think there's two sides shooting at each other" no s
t.EFA.. I saw your name on a marmalade jar but I was wrong, it said Thick Cut....
t storm.It is close approaching the time not only to declaw the bear, once again, but to decapitate it once and for all: to all to allow the freedoms that those in the West take for granted, to allow those to spread like a antibiotic throughout it's political and social culture....
Mojocvh said:
It is close approaching the time not only to declaw the bear, once again, but to decapitate it once and for all: to all to allow the freedoms that those in the West take for granted, to allow those to spread like a antibiotic throughout it's political and social culture....
Correct, but it will take a generation or so of repeated treatment before Russia finally rids itself of a collective gangsta-wannabee ethos.We gradually defeated the Soviet Union by publicly bankrupting an already privately bankrupt system of government....and much to XJF's disappointment, nobody got nuked.
We will defeat the Putin Union by the same means, with the same result, and XJF will be equally grumpy.
I suspect it may take one more iteration before the Russian national fear/guilt/betrayal/hate/pogrom/guilt/fear/more-hate psychosis cycle that Stalin soaked into the blood, stone and soil will finally be exorcised.
Mojocvh said:
The Ukrainians are defending their sovereign territory with one hand and foot tied behind their backs, period.
It is close approaching the time not only to declaw the bear, once again, but to decapitate it once and for all: to all to allow the freedoms that those in the West take for granted, to allow those to spread like a antibiotic throughout it's political and social culture....
The last bat sIt is close approaching the time not only to declaw the bear, once again, but to decapitate it once and for all: to all to allow the freedoms that those in the West take for granted, to allow those to spread like a antibiotic throughout it's political and social culture....
t loon who tried that idea supposedly ended his days in a bunker after Russia took half the country apart.Assuming that is he didn't actually do a runner to South America soon after getting kicked out of Stalingrad.I think that also describes Bush's unfinished plans for Ukraine and onwards after the overwhelming success of the Iraq mission.
Go for it see what happens.But don't say no one warned you against it before you set out across Russia with 100 Challengers to bring regime change to the welcoming Russian population.That is assuming you're actually British and of fighting age.
As for me I was happy under the old Cold War strategy of don't bother them unless they bother us first.The definition of 'us' not including East Germany let alone Eastern Ukraine.In which case the idea of 'Russian freedom' at the point of a gun was never going to work just as it won't now.
eharding said:
Correct, but it will take a generation or so of repeated treatment before Russia finally rids itself of a collective gangsta-wannabee ethos.
We gradually defeated the Soviet Union by publicly bankrupting an already privately bankrupt system of government....and much to XJF's disappointment, nobody got nuked.
We will defeat the Putin Union by the same means, with the same result, and XJF will be equally grumpy.
I suspect it may take one more iteration before the Russian national fear/guilt/betrayal/hate/pogrom/guilt/fear/more-hate psychosis cycle that Stalin soaked into the blood, stone and soil will finally be exorcised.
Then there's the alternative version of history in which 'the West' lost much of it's bottle regarding the MAD strategy and went whingeing to the Russians about nuclear and conventional arms reductions and creating 'better relations' between the opposing sides.It seems equally obvious that Russia decided to test the sincerity of that by withdrawing eastwards and seeing if NATO then filled the vacuum by advancing east.Bingo the plan obviously worked and now Russia knows what the true intentions of the west were/are. We gradually defeated the Soviet Union by publicly bankrupting an already privately bankrupt system of government....and much to XJF's disappointment, nobody got nuked.
We will defeat the Putin Union by the same means, with the same result, and XJF will be equally grumpy.
I suspect it may take one more iteration before the Russian national fear/guilt/betrayal/hate/pogrom/guilt/fear/more-hate psychosis cycle that Stalin soaked into the blood, stone and soil will finally be exorcised.
Or the alternative view that the USSR and Eastern Bloc was bankrupt, fell apart, the Eastern Bloc countries went to the west as they were fed up with being dominated by Russia and wanted a better life.
That doesn't fit with your views about evil NATO trying to take over the world though whilst sweet little Russia and heroic Putin try to avoid launching a nuclear war.
That doesn't fit with your views about evil NATO trying to take over the world though whilst sweet little Russia and heroic Putin try to avoid launching a nuclear war.
greygoose said:
Or the alternative view that the USSR and Eastern Bloc was bankrupt, fell apart, the Eastern Bloc countries went to the west as they were fed up with being dominated by Russia and wanted a better life.
That doesn't fit with your views about evil NATO trying to take over the world though whilst sweet little Russia and heroic Putin try to avoid launching a nuclear war.
So NATO didn't move east it was Poland etc etc and now Ukraine which were somehow moved west to nearer the Atlantic than Russia.Also how were the Eastern Bloc supposedly going to be 'dominated' by Russia after Russia had obviously finally decided to go home and let them get on with their lives together with the intention of seeing wether NATO would then move in.That doesn't fit with your views about evil NATO trying to take over the world though whilst sweet little Russia and heroic Putin try to avoid launching a nuclear war.
Added to which,as confirmed by at least some of the EU supporters here,the agenda of that eastward expansion is obviously one of moves against Russia to bring 'regime change' and 'western values' to the Russian population on the basis that they are waiting to welcome that with open arms.As I've said as someone who thinks that Kennedy was a genius in dealing with Russia and strategic policy in general the current NATO moves towards Russia are an obvious Bush type logic driven plan similar to the one in Iraq.But this time unlike Iraq against a nuclear armed superpower that knows what it is doing if/when push comes to shove.
greygoose said:
Once again you seem completely unwilling to see that the populations of countries can have a say in how they are governed and who they are aligned with, you seem to think that the former Eastern Bloc nation should remain beholden to Russia despite their painful history.
I don't think that Russia could care less how those former eastern bloc countries are governed which is why Russia left them to get on with their lives.The bit that Russia is bothered about is when NATO then moves in where Russia has moved out thereby threatening Russia's borders militarily.In addition to moving into areas which are indisputably still of strategic and territorial importance to Russia not us.The idea that western Europe would want to go to war with Russia over Crimea or eastern Ukraine is collective madness that's at least as bad as that which applied in the case of Germany during WW2.Sadly I think that NATO has set western Europe on a collision course with Russia which will now be very difficult to stop.Hopefully I'm wrong. Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 30th August 17:53
XJ Flyer said:
greygoose said:
Once again you seem completely unwilling to see that the populations of countries can have a say in how they are governed and who they are aligned with, you seem to think that the former Eastern Bloc nation should remain beholden to Russia despite their painful history.
I don't think that Russia could care less how those former eastern bloc countries are governed which is why Russia left them to get on with their lives.The bit that Russia is bothered about is when NATO then moves in where Russia has moved out thereby threatening Russia's borders militarily.In addition to moving into areas which are indisputably still of strategic and territorial importance to Russia not us.The idea that western Europe would want to go to war with Russia over Crimea or eastern Ukraine is collective madness that's at least as bad as that which applied in the case of Germany during WW2. Sorry but I just can't be bothered trying to work out either what you are to say or even why any more.
MiniMan64 said:
Serious question XJ, are none of the former Eastern bloc countries allowed to join/associate with the EU or NATO, even if it is the wish or demand of the majority of the population, lest the process might upset Russia?
It seems clear enough that EU membership is not the issue.It is all about the NATO alliance moving up to Russia's borders and let alone strategically important areas like Crimea.Which is obviously what the Ukraine dispute is all about.As for all the brave NATO expansion supporters on here.Your move.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/...
Putin always has something to prove doesn't he. It's a wonder he didn't rip his shirt open and start flexing his biceps to show us all how strong he is.
On the subject of NATO, if the Kiev applies to come in, would the West dare take them in because of the ongoing complications with Russia?
Or would they be allowed to join at the moment anyway - in the same way that you can't apply for house insurance while it's on fire?
On the subject of NATO, if the Kiev applies to come in, would the West dare take them in because of the ongoing complications with Russia?
Or would they be allowed to join at the moment anyway - in the same way that you can't apply for house insurance while it's on fire?
XJ Flyer said:
MiniMan64 said:
Serious question XJ, are none of the former Eastern bloc countries allowed to join/associate with the EU or NATO, even if it is the wish or demand of the majority of the population, lest the process might upset Russia?
It seems clear enough that EU membership is not the issue.It is all about the NATO alliance moving up to Russia's borders and let alone strategically important areas like Crimea.Which is obviously what the Ukraine dispute is all about.As for all the brave NATO expansion supporters on here.Your move.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/...
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