Malaysian Airlines 777 down on Ukraine / Russia Border?
Discussion
XJ Flyer said:
EvoDelta said:
XJ Flyer said:
'He' hasn't 'agreed' to anything the 'ceasefire' has been agreed between 'the Ukrainian Russian loyalists' and the Ukrainian nationalist side' at the 'request' of the Ukrainian nationalist side.Probably because it has just dawned on them that America doesn't want nukes flying into it's back yard if things were to keep escalating with US and NATO help.
Maybe the reporting is a bit off then:BBC News said:
Ukraine's President Poroshenko says he has agreed with Russian President Putin in telephone talks on a "ceasefire process" for the war-torn east.
Why would they need to agree with Putin? May as well have called the President of Botswana.www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/03/ukraine-russ...
prand said:
XJ Flyer said:
Trust me history shows that Russia's leaders are all just figure heads who implement policy decided by others ( much ) higher up the chain of command.Putin is the puppet now just as those before him were.While whatever the tactics being used by the Russian military you can bet that they are dictated by the military leadership to Putin not vice versa.The fact is the west kicked off a new Cold War from the time it started the policy of NATO expansion during Yeltin's administration.The fact that Putin was then put into office is a symptom of that not the cause.
I guess you're saying it's the powerful military leaders who opened doors for Putin to come to power and now dictate his policies according to their self interests.Any idea who these people are, and what their motivations are, or are you just basing it on a historical assumption?
And just to help me, what does NATO expansion involve? As far as I can see in the UK we have reduced our military capability to fractions of that during the Cold War.
NATO 'expansion' involved the incorporation of the ex WP and Soviet states which is a process which started before Putin came to power.Which seems strange in a supposedly 'post Cold War' environment.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Wednesday 3rd September 14:25
9mm said:
XJ Flyer said:
EvoDelta said:
XJ Flyer said:
'He' hasn't 'agreed' to anything the 'ceasefire' has been agreed between 'the Ukrainian Russian loyalists' and the Ukrainian nationalist side' at the 'request' of the Ukrainian nationalist side.Probably because it has just dawned on them that America doesn't want nukes flying into it's back yard if things were to keep escalating with US and NATO help.
Maybe the reporting is a bit off then:BBC News said:
Ukraine's President Poroshenko says he has agreed with Russian President Putin in telephone talks on a "ceasefire process" for the war-torn east.
Why would they need to agree with Putin? May as well have called the President of Botswana.www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/03/ukraine-russ...
9mm said:
XJ Flyer said:
EvoDelta said:
XJ Flyer said:
'He' hasn't 'agreed' to anything the 'ceasefire' has been agreed between 'the Ukrainian Russian loyalists' and the Ukrainian nationalist side' at the 'request' of the Ukrainian nationalist side.Probably because it has just dawned on them that America doesn't want nukes flying into it's back yard if things were to keep escalating with US and NATO help.
Maybe the reporting is a bit off then:BBC News said:
Ukraine's President Poroshenko says he has agreed with Russian President Putin in telephone talks on a "ceasefire process" for the war-torn east.
Why would they need to agree with Putin? May as well have called the President of Botswana.www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/03/ukraine-russ...
vonuber said:
XJ Flyer said:
NATO 'expansion' involved the incorporation of the ex WP and Soviet states many before Putin came to power.
Who bloody well WANTED to join to provide security FROM RUSSIA. And given recent events it was a bloody smart move.Jesus, it's not difficult is it!
XJ Flyer said:
Why would they need 'security from Russia'
Because given Russias actions in the Ukraine and Georgia and Chechnya have shown, having security against Russian interference and aggression is a very, very good thing.Putin is doing a great job on behalf of NATO. Now everyone is going to want to join it.
DMN said:
XJ Flyer said:
Why would they need 'security from Russia'
Because given Russias actions in the Ukraine and Georgia and Chechnya have shown, having security against Russian interference and aggression is a very, very good thing.Putin is doing a great job on behalf of NATO. Now everyone is going to want to join it.
In all cases the relevant bit being that there is no defence against Russia other than the strategy of mutually assured destruction and no one with any sense wants to wipe out the northern hemisphere to kick Russia out of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.
scherzkeks said:
Cobnapint said:
Then, if you want a bit more, you bully the incumbent government of that particular sovereign state you are 'dealing' with, until you get a bit more.
How did that interim government come to power? Let's rehash that part. IIRC it was a violet coup, in which there was ample evidence that the United States and possibly other Western governments were contributing financial and material support to groups like Svoboda. There were even US contractors photographed on the ground -- Xe/Academi/Blackwater I believe (or perhaps they have chosen to hide behind a new name now). These tactics mimic what the US govt. has been doing to destabilize countries like Venezuela and others in South America for years. Edited by scherzkeks on Tuesday 2nd September 21:32
"The armed forces, whether military or paramilitary, can be a defining factor of a coup d'état."
Can you see what your supposition is missing [well apart from any co-location with reality].
vonuber said:
XJ Flyer said:
NATO 'expansion' involved the incorporation of the ex WP and Soviet states many before Putin came to power.
Who bloody well WANTED to join to provide security FROM RUSSIA. And given recent events it was a bloody smart move.Jesus, it's not difficult is it!
Bit of a sad read from the mother of a Russian soldier killed in Ukraine, it's not completely blaming Putin for everything but it does seem fairly honest so worth a read before it is re edited or removed for good
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/russia-and-former-...
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/russia-and-former-...
rich85uk said:
Bit of a sad read from the mother of a Russian soldier killed in Ukraine, it's not completely blaming Putin for everything but it does seem fairly honest so worth a read before it is re edited or removed for good
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/russia-and-former-...
Some poor buggers had a delivery last Sunday, bit unusual as it wasn't Amazon, turns out the long slim wooden box held their headless son. And they had to sign for him too....from R4.http://www.kyivpost.com/content/russia-and-former-...
Finlandia said:
Jimbeaux said:
OK, I am starting a bounty. $100 'Merican for whoever accurately counts how many times the phrases "Risk the U.S. Homeland", "Nuclear attack", and "NATO expansion" are used in this thread. Did I miss any slightly overused phrases?
WW3? Russian buffer zone? Jimbeaux said:
OK, I am starting a bounty. $100 'Merican for whoever accurately counts how many times the phrases "Risk the U.S. Homeland", "Nuclear attack", and "NATO expansion" are used in this thread. Did I miss any slightly overused phrases?
Not over used just inconveniently accurate.rich85uk said:
Bit of a sad read from the mother of a Russian soldier killed in Ukraine, it's not completely blaming Putin for everything but it does seem fairly honest so worth a read before it is re edited or removed for good
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/russia-and-former-...
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/russia-and-former-...
Finlandia said:
...lets see his popularity come crashing down when Russian mothers start receiving their sons back in black bags and wooden boxes.
Jimbeaux said:
Finlandia said:
Jimbeaux said:
OK, I am starting a bounty. $100 'Merican for whoever accurately counts how many times the phrases "Risk the U.S. Homeland", "Nuclear attack", and "NATO expansion" are used in this thread. Did I miss any slightly overused phrases?
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