Malaysian Airlines 777 down on Ukraine / Russia Border?

[Mojocvh]

So two and a half days on and the bodies are still lying in the fields rotting.

It would seem that the Soviets Russians and their cohorts can do what they want with impunity.

Sanctions?

[Eric Mc]

There is no proper centralised control in the separatist region.

Obviously, the government in Kiev has no control. Even Moscow has limited control.

What we have are local commanders of all levels of intelligence and authority muddling about trying to disassociate themselves from this incident and probably therefore more intent on playing "pas the buck" at the moment.
Humanitarian thoughts are the last things on their mind.

[jmorgan]

Mojocvh said:

So two and a half days on and the bodies are still lying in the fields rotting.

It would seem that the Soviets Russians and their cohorts can do what they want with impunity.

Sanctions?

I fear sanctions are standing up to the hand on the gas tap.

[Dr Jekyll]

The Leonard Nimoy lookalike on BBC News 24 is still defending Russia and blaming Ukraine.

[skyrover]

Dr Jekyll said:

The Leonard Nimoy lookalike on BBC News 24 is still defending Russia and blaming Ukraine.

He's been on a few times since the crisis in Ukraine began. Looked very uncomfortable this morning, stumbling a few times.

[jogon]

[Eric Mc]

Fantastic political cartoon.

[The Hypno-Toad]

Guam said:

My guess is the Russians will after they have sanitised the scene claim it was a bomb on board the plane and purely coincidental that it went down where it did.

I concede its moving into conspiracy nutjob territory but I am struggling to find any other reasons for taking these actions.

I don't think its tinfoil hat territory at all. It would seem to me that this could very well be the way things are heading. Plus they can claim someone has got a grudge against Malaysia following on from MH370.
Also remember that Russia has form on doctoring black boxes. If I remember they chopped the tape around on KAL007 before the proper copy was given to Koreans during glasnost.

[Reardy Mister]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

-DeaDLocK- said:

Great op-ed on the culpability of the airline:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/opinion/malay...

"The truth is that air transportation, like most other modern systems, could not operate if it fortified itself against every conceivable peril."

This is a very good article, and explains succinctly what I was trying to get across to the mouth-frothers over the last few days.

Please, all those who think the airline was somehow culpable; read this, accept that its reality, and move on.

For my apart I can accept that point. But as we say in motorcycling circles when arguing our rights on the roads (often a piece of road or road rule whilst within the law, is still not safe or there is a safer, less orthodox alternative), "there is no point being the most correct guy in the morgue." i.e. having the law on your side/right of way, doesn't mean you are not going to get knocked off when someone else is doing something dumb.

And whilst Malaysian acted within all guidelines of the time and therefore cannot be culpable, the fact remains that today there is not a single dead Air France (or as per the article) passenger or crew member in the Ukraine. There couldn't be because the planes weren't there in the first place.

That's not hindsight, that's foresight.

Edited by Reardy Mister on Saturday 19th July 12:07

[anonymous-user]

The stuff being posted on here in the last 15/20 minutes is really concerning.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/19/mh17-...

The tweets from Max Seddon and Christopher Miller.

[Foppo]

RenOHH said:

The stuff being posted on here in the last 15/20 minutes is really concerning.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/19/mh17-...

The tweets from Max Seddon and Christopher Miller.

If this is happening what a disgrace.We are dealing here with low lives from the first order.

[TheSnitch]

From that article

''Malaysia Airlines, its crew and passengers and the civil aviation system are the objects of this crime and tragedy. The finger-pointing should not be at them, but at the criminals''

Quite.

[anonymous-user]

Foppo said:

If this is happening what a disgrace.We are dealing here with low lives from the first order.

It's so surreal to me that things like that are actually happening. The whole affair is like a story line from the Metal Gear series of games.

[Disastrous]

Reardy Mister said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

-DeaDLocK- said:

Great op-ed on the culpability of the airline:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/opinion/malay...

"The truth is that air transportation, like most other modern systems, could not operate if it fortified itself against every conceivable peril."

This is a very good article, and explains succinctly what I was trying to get across to the mouth-frothers over the last few days.

Please, all those who think the airline was somehow culpable; read this, accept that its reality, and move on.

For my apart I can accept that point. But as we say in motorcycling circles when arguing our rights on the roads (often a piece of road or road rule whilst within the law, is still not safe or there is a safer, less orthodox alternative), "there is no point being the most correct guy in the morgue." i.e. having the law on your side/right of way, doesn't mean you are not going to get knocked off when someone else is doing something dumb.

And whilst Malaysian acted within all guidelines of the time and therefore cannot be culpable, the fact remains that today there is not a single dead Air France (or as per the article) passenger or crew member in the Ukraine. There couldn't be because the planes weren't there in the first place.

That's not hindsight, that's foresight.

Edited by Reardy Mister on Saturday 19th July 12:07

Yes, but there are plenty of Air France passengers and crew at the bottom of the ocean just off Brazil. Bad things happen sometimes and the sheer volume of traffic in the air means that all you can really do is hope it doesn't happen to you.

That said, extraordinary misfortune for it to happen twice to Malaysia Airlines.

[jmorgan]

I would imagine any covering up is done by people with different set of morals. I big stick is all that will get them out of the way, is it going to be wielded?

[CAPP0]

jogon said:

Hmm. I read that paper this morning, and I thought that was in pretty poor taste.

[Munter]

What is there to cover up? Everybody is certain it was shot down. The question is, by which side? As both sides have taken the same weapons from the same pile even if the missile used is found it'd be no real use to help identify who fired it.

As far as I can see the only thing to be done at the scene is collect, identify and release bodies.

[Bill]

The Hypno-Toad said:

Guam said:

My guess is the Russians will after they have sanitised the scene claim it was a bomb on board the plane and purely coincidental that it went down where it did.

I concede its moving into conspiracy nutjob territory but I am struggling to find any other reasons for taking these actions.

I don't think its tinfoil hat territory at all. It would seem to me that this could very well be the way things are heading. Plus they can claim someone has got a grudge against Malaysia following on from MH370.
Also remember that Russia has form on doctoring black boxes. If I remember they chopped the tape around on KAL007 before the proper copy was given to Koreans during glasnost.

There is an argument that the Russians are best placed to go in and start the process of repatriating the bodies and the sooner that starts the better, but a cover up is a distinct possibility.

The mad thing is that the Russians could salvage the situation from their perspective by doing the decent thing, sorting the bodies and handing over the separatists (presumably) responsible. Anything else suggests they had more of a hand in it imo.

[Nom de ploom]

that was very difficult to watch but watch we must because this is the reality of the situation.

its truly horrific.

I'm at a loss for words. this could well end up being a turning point in modern history.

[vonuber]

Every action taken by the Russians so far show that they, if not the triggermen, are up to their neck in it with blood on their hands.