Private pension age going up from 55.....
Discussion
sidicks said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
A 1/80th pension plus 3/80th lump sum is broadly equivalent to a 1/60th pension where pension has to be surrendered to provide a lump sum.
Exactly! Seems beyond the comprehension of some people on here...in an 80th scheme you have to contribute for 40 years to reach a contribution level of 40/80
in a 60ths scheme you have to contribute for 30 years to reach a contribution level of 30/60
there aren;t 40/60 final salary schemes any more
Sheepshanks said:
sidicks said:
The 1995 scheme is indeed a 1/80ths scheme, however the 2008 scheme is a 1/60ths scheme...
It's changing again in 2015. No wonder a lot of younger NHS staff aren't joining (or aren't able to join as NHS uses external companies more and more) both of which will accelerate the annual shortfall.
the 2015 scheme is 1/54 CARE with no limit to accrual, however 2015 scheme benefits are not available before state pension age .
http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/4017.aspx
mph1977 said:
the maximum pension accrual in current Public sector 60th schemes such as the current Police FS scheme and the 2008 CARE NHS scheme is 30/60 not 40/60 ...
for current scheme police officers that represents 50 % of final salary , for the CARE schemes it represents the CARE equivalent of half salary
the old 40/60 Police pension which resulted in a pension of 2/.3rd s of FS went years ago.
It shows a pension for up to 45 years accrual for the 2007 scheme here...for current scheme police officers that represents 50 % of final salary , for the CARE schemes it represents the CARE equivalent of half salary
the old 40/60 Police pension which resulted in a pension of 2/.3rd s of FS went years ago.
http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/Pensions/Documents/Pensio...
mph1977 said:
it seems to be on the comprehension of dickead si of the following inalienable fact
in an 80th scheme you have to contribute for 40 years to reach a contribution level of 40/80
in a 60ths scheme you have to contribute for 30 years to reach a contribution level of 30/60
there aren;t 40/60 final salary schemes any more
You are still ignoring the lump sum and not comparing like with like.in an 80th scheme you have to contribute for 40 years to reach a contribution level of 40/80
in a 60ths scheme you have to contribute for 30 years to reach a contribution level of 30/60
there aren;t 40/60 final salary schemes any more
30/80th pension plus 90/80th lump sum is the same as 30/60th pension from which pension must be surrendered for a lump sum.
http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/Documents/Pensions/SD_Gui...
is the summary / guide to the 1995 and 2008 NHS pensions
page 4 provides a summary of the benefits under the 1995 and 2008 scheme
i misremembered the maximum benefit under the 1995 scheme it's 45/80
however for someone mid career at present that level of benefit would only be achievable if they joined the NHS post registration at 21-23 years of age by working until 66-68 - which is likely to be their stated pension age ...
is the summary / guide to the 1995 and 2008 NHS pensions
page 4 provides a summary of the benefits under the 1995 and 2008 scheme
i misremembered the maximum benefit under the 1995 scheme it's 45/80
however for someone mid career at present that level of benefit would only be achievable if they joined the NHS post registration at 21-23 years of age by working until 66-68 - which is likely to be their stated pension age ...
mph1977 said:
http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/Documents/Pensions/SD_Gui...
is the summary / guide to the 1995 and 2008 NHS pensions
page 4 provides a summary of the benefits under the 1995 and 2008 scheme
i misremembered the maximum benefit under the 1995 scheme it's 45/80
however for someone mid career at present that level of benefit would only be achievable if they joined the NHS post registration at 21-23 years of age by working until 66-68 - which is likely to be their stated pension age ...
And?is the summary / guide to the 1995 and 2008 NHS pensions
page 4 provides a summary of the benefits under the 1995 and 2008 scheme
i misremembered the maximum benefit under the 1995 scheme it's 45/80
however for someone mid career at present that level of benefit would only be achievable if they joined the NHS post registration at 21-23 years of age by working until 66-68 - which is likely to be their stated pension age ...
Why does it show someone achieving a 75% pension based on 45 years service on the 2008 (1/60ths) scheme...
Edited by sidicks on Sunday 27th July 13:33
sidicks said:
mph1977 said:
http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/Documents/Pensions/SD_Gui...
is the summary / guide to the 1995 and 2008 NHS pensions
page 4 provides a summary of the benefits under the 1995 and 2008 scheme
i misremembered the maximum benefit under the 1995 scheme it's 45/80
however for someone mid career at present that level of benefit would only be achievable if they joined the NHS post registration at 21-23 years of age by working until 66-68 - which is likely to be their stated pension age ...
And?is the summary / guide to the 1995 and 2008 NHS pensions
page 4 provides a summary of the benefits under the 1995 and 2008 scheme
i misremembered the maximum benefit under the 1995 scheme it's 45/80
however for someone mid career at present that level of benefit would only be achievable if they joined the NHS post registration at 21-23 years of age by working until 66-68 - which is likely to be their stated pension age ...
Why does it show someone achieving a 75% pension based on 45 years service on the 2008 (1/60ths) scheme...
Edited by sidicks on Sunday 27th July 13:33
CARE so no one would ever actually be able to achieve that pension ...
mph1977 said:
no lump sum
This is the lump sum you've repeatedly ignored in all your previous (false) comparisons??mph1977 said:
CARE so no one would ever actually be able to achieve that pension ...
So once again you were wrong about a maximum accrual of 30/60...And reckonable pay is based on the best 3 years in the last 10, so not CARE.
Do you actual understand the first thing about these schemes?? Everything you've claimed has proven to be wrong!!
I hope you're better at your job than you are at understanding pensions!
Edited by sidicks on Sunday 27th July 14:03
Edited by sidicks on Sunday 27th July 14:04
sidicks said:
Sheepshanks said:
It's changing again in 2015.
No wonder a lot of younger NHS staff aren't joining (or aren't able to join as NHS uses external companies more and more) both of which will accelerate the annual shortfall.
If only they realised that they are stupid not to join, given the benefits relative to the contributions....No wonder a lot of younger NHS staff aren't joining (or aren't able to join as NHS uses external companies more and more) both of which will accelerate the annual shortfall.
Sheepshanks said:
The problem is that the scheme keeps changing coupled with people like you saying it's unaffordable / unsustainable etc so they don't believe it'll ever pay out. Plus the contributions are fairly significant amounts now - most people not in the public sector don't realise they pay anything but in fact they're paying more than most private sector employees.
This doesn't stack up;It's future accrual that has been changed, not accrued benefits
How much they pay relative to the private sector (on average) is irrelevant, it's how much they pay relative to the benefits received that is important (many private sector workers make minimal contributions and hence will receive minimal benefits)
As suggested above - Unions would be much better off proposing reducing accrual (say 1/100 or 1/120ths) in return for same / lower contributions rather than defending the status quo and denying economic reality..
sidicks said:
....it's how much they pay relative to the benefits received that is important
That depends on whether you believe they'll pay out. The younger staff don't, because they keep hearing public sector pensions are unaffordable and unsustainable. Well done.The State will have to keep them in old age and they'll have paid nothing (apart from normal tax & NI) towards it.
Sheepshanks said:
The State will have to keep them in old age.....
These days you hear so many people saying that, but they are fools. By the time they are retired there will be so many old folks that any state safety-net will be very basic. Shuffling about a large dormitory wearing a pair of tatty slippers and getting meals in the soup kitchen. No thanks. That's what people should be frightened of.
Qwert1e said:
These days you hear so many people saying that, but they are fools. By the time they are retired there will be so many old folks that any state safety-net will be very basic. Shuffling about a large dormitory wearing a pair of tatty slippers and getting meals in the soup kitchen. No thanks.
That's what people should be frightened of.
The 'nice' private equivalent will be unaffordable to ordinary people living on their pensions.That's what people should be frightened of.
A500leroy said:
Ok then, I'm 30 getting the workplace pension later this year, I'll be able to get a fixed monthly sum for the rest of my life from what 58 under these rules rite? , do I need an annuity type thing?
which rules ? the law allows you to draw on occupational pensions from 50 or 55 , however the 'normal retriement age' for many of these schemes is between 60 and State pension age ... taking pension before the normal retirement age reduces the pension payable , in some cases delayign retirement can increase the pension payable
in a defined contribution scheme - the fund you build up is what , normally. pays for the annuity - there is the possibility of use this fund in other ways and there is also thewhole 'impaired' annuity thing where the annuity provider takesa gamlbe on you dying early becasue of existing morbidity or becasue of lifestyle choices like beign a smoker .
in a defined benefit scheme your contributions are what builds up your entitlement to the defined benefit at the point where you draw the salary
mph1977 said:
which rules ?
the law allows you to draw on occupational pensions from 50 or 55 , however the 'normal retriement age' for many of these schemes is between 60 and State pension age ... taking pension before the normal retirement age reduces the pension payable , in some cases delayign retirement can increase the pension payable
in a defined contribution scheme - the fund you build up is what , normally. pays for the annuity - there is the possibility of use this fund in other ways and there is also thewhole 'impaired' annuity thing where the annuity provider takesa gamlbe on you dying early becasue of existing morbidity or becasue of lifestyle choices like beign a smoker .
in a defined benefit scheme your contributions are what builds up your entitlement to the defined benefit at the point where you draw the salary
Given your recent performance can I suggest you leave the responses to those that actually know what they are talking about. (I'm putting the accuracy of much of the above down to luck).the law allows you to draw on occupational pensions from 50 or 55 , however the 'normal retriement age' for many of these schemes is between 60 and State pension age ... taking pension before the normal retirement age reduces the pension payable , in some cases delayign retirement can increase the pension payable
in a defined contribution scheme - the fund you build up is what , normally. pays for the annuity - there is the possibility of use this fund in other ways and there is also thewhole 'impaired' annuity thing where the annuity provider takesa gamlbe on you dying early becasue of existing morbidity or becasue of lifestyle choices like beign a smoker .
in a defined benefit scheme your contributions are what builds up your entitlement to the defined benefit at the point where you draw the salary
Edited by sidicks on Sunday 27th July 19:08
Sheepshanks said:
That depends on whether you believe they'll pay out. The younger staff don't, because they keep hearing public sector pensions are unaffordable and unsustainable. Well done.
The State will have to keep them in old age and they'll have paid nothing (apart from normal tax & NI) towards it.
To repeat - they are STUPID if they believe that, given that changes have affected future accruals not accrued benefits.The State will have to keep them in old age and they'll have paid nothing (apart from normal tax & NI) towards it.
If the Unions were doing their jobs, they explain this to their members...
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