Private pension age going up from 55.....

[arp1]

I just find it completely ironic when people lambast and harass public service workers for trying to defend the changes to their pensions yet here we are moaning about the same/similar changes to private sector pensions...

[sidicks]

XJ Flyer said:

So why not leave the age as it is and be honest by calling it what it actually is a tax relief cut in pension provision.Instead of dressing it up to make it look like something else.It is obvious that,for such a scam to work,the next step will be for the government to impose a higher element of compulsory pension payments taken from wages.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Tuesday 22 July 20:38

If you want free access to your money then invest outside of a pension.

If you want the benefit of pension relief then you have to accept the restrictions the government imposes.

[XJ Flyer]

arp1 said:

I just find it completely ironic when people lambast and harass public service workers for trying to defend the changes to their pensions yet here we are moaning about the same/similar changes to private sector pensions...

Which is just a symptom of the way in which people are easily led by government propaganda being used to cover a hidden agenda.In this case it being all about what is effectively a combination of a tax increase,in the form of more pension premiums,for less return in the form of pension entitlement just being deferred wages by any other name.First they apply it to the public sector who are painted as the enemy within then they go for the rest.

[Sheepshanks]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Too late at 57? You could well live 'till beyond 100.

[sidicks]

XJ Flyer said:

Which is just a symptom of the way in which people are easily led by government propaganda being used to cover a hidden agenda.In this case it being all about what is effectively a combination of a tax increase,in the form of more pension premiums,for less return in the form of pension entitlement just being deferred wages by any other name.First they apply it to the public sector who are painted as the enemy within then they go for the rest.

You seem to be confused between DB and DC pensions...

[arp1]

XJ Flyer said:

arp1 said:

I just find it completely ironic when people lambast and harass public service workers for trying to defend the changes to their pensions yet here we are moaning about the same/similar changes to private sector pensions...

Which is just a symptom of the way in which people are easily led by government propaganda being used to cover a hidden agenda.In this case it being all about what is effectively a combination of a tax increase,in the form of more pension premiums,for less return in the form of pension entitlement just being deferred wages by any other name.First they apply it to the public sector who are painted as the enemy within then they go for the rest.

It's a vicious cycle... Private pensions were great back in the day, then went down and public seemed the best, now public ones are being attacked and now private too... We are all in this together against Westmonster and the parasites that line their own beds at the cosy of every hard working individual in this country, so can we lay off the public/private one puma ship and work together and see it for what it is and that it's those running the show that need voted out and others (who I don't know) in to try and sort this mess out... After all, we are ALL paying for the bankers feck up..... And try are still getting paid bonuses! Go figure!

[lamboman100]

Few people in the UK take their full or partial private pension at 55. The number of people affected by this change is small.

Fact is, Britons are living longer, the working population is aging, and the UK economy is sunsetting. Britain simply cannot afford generous pensions anymore.

[XJ Flyer]

sidicks said:

XJ Flyer said:

So why not leave the age as it is and be honest by calling it what it actually is a tax relief cut in pension provision.Instead of dressing it up to make it look like something else.It is obvious that,for such a scam to work,the next step will be for the government to impose a higher element of compulsory pension payments taken from wages.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Tuesday 22 July 20:38

If you want free access to your money then invest outside of a pension.

If you want the benefit of pension relief then you have to accept the restrictions the government imposes.

In the case of pensions the so called tax relief benefits the banking sector more than pensioners.However you look at it very few people will live to receive even what they've paid in of their own money regardless of and let alone the tax relief on premiums and the interest due.

The fact is wether they call it a tax relief cut or an increase in the deferred payment period it's all about taking more money out of people's wages for less in return.Pensions are a big rip off and this just adds to that fact.As for your last sentence that's spot on which is why pensions are a very poor investment compared to other types.

Which is why I've said that the next move will obviously be to increase the level of compulsion built into the pension system wether private or social in order to keep the scam going and viable.Therefore expect to see more propaganda saying we all need and have to contribute more for our 'pensions'.

As opposed to employers need to pay more wages for people to invest as they choose to maintain their standard of living in old age at a civilised retirement age.

[sidicks]

arp1 said:

It's a vicious cycle... Private pensions were great back in the day, then went down and public seemed the best, now public ones are being attacked and now private too... We are all in this together against Westmonster and the parasites that line their own beds at the cosy of every hard working individual in this country, so can we lay off the public/private one puma ship and work together and see it for what it is and that it's those running the show that need voted out and others (who I don't know) in to try and sort this mess out... After all, we are ALL paying for the bankers feck up..... And try are still getting paid bonuses! Go figure!

As well as not understanding about pensions it appears you also don't understand about government spending and basic economics (and who is responsible for more than a decade of overspending).

[XJ Flyer]

lamboman100 said:

Few people in the UK take their full or partial private pension at 55. The number of people affected by this change is small.

Fact is, Britons are living longer, the working population is aging, and the UK economy is sunsetting. Britain simply cannot afford generous pensions anymore.

Or to put it another way capitalism British style can't deliver.Most people won't live to collect all their investment as it stands now.So how old is everyone supposed to be living and supposed to be working for in this brave new Britain and it's supposedly well performing G8 economy.While if Britain can't afford to pay pensions any more then don't expect or compel people to contribute to the scam.Let them keep ( all of ) their wages and invest them as they wish.In which case pensions would be seen for the rip off scam to benefit the banking sector that they are.

[sidicks]

arp1 said:

It's a vicious cycle... Private pensions were great back in the day, then went down and public seemed the best, now public ones are being attacked and now private too... We are all in this together against Westmonster and the parasites that line their own beds at the cosy of every hard working individual in this country, so can we lay off the public/private one puma ship and work together and see it for what it is and that it's those running the show that need voted out and others (who I don't know) in to try and sort this mess out... After all, we are ALL paying for the bankers feck up..... And try are still getting paid bonuses! Go figure!

As well as not understanding about pensions it appears you also don't understand about government spending and basic economics (and who is responsible for more than a decade of overspending).

[Sheepshanks]

sidicks said:

That's hugely valuable, and the amount you pay in contributions is probably somewhere between 25% and 33% of the total cost - other tax payers have to pay the rest.

They (firemen, policemen etc) pay in a bigger % of their salaries than typical private sector workers.

[XJ Flyer]

arp1 said:

It's a vicious cycle... Private pensions were great back in the day, then went down and public seemed the best, now public ones are being attacked and now private too... We are all in this together against Westmonster and the parasites that line their own beds at the cosy of every hard working individual in this country, so can we lay off the public/private one puma ship and work together and see it for what it is and that it's those running the show that need voted out and others (who I don't know) in to try and sort this mess out... After all, we are ALL paying for the bankers feck up..... And try are still getting paid bonuses! Go figure!

What's needed is freedom of choice and less/no compulsion in the pension system.The fact is the bankers ( and the government ) have never run or wanted the pension system for pensioners.It's all about taking more money in than they are prepared to pay out.If they can then apply compulsion to the scam all the better for the scammers.Pensions have always been a mug investment for mugs and no one with any sense would want to invest money in a scam in which the game is rigged so that the odds are they won't ever see all the money they are owed.

[lamboman100]

XJ Flyer said:

lamboman100 said:

Few people in the UK take their full or partial private pension at 55. The number of people affected by this change is small.

Fact is, Britons are living longer, the working population is aging, and the UK economy is sunsetting. Britain simply cannot afford generous pensions anymore.

Or to put it another way capitalism British style can't deliver.Most people won't live to collect all their investment as it stands now.So how old is everyone supposed to be living and supposed to be working for in this brave new Britain and it's supposedly well performing G8 economy.While if Britain can't afford to pay pensions any more then don't expect or compel people to contribute to the scam.Let them keep ( all of ) their wages and invest them as they wish.In which case pensions would be seen for the rip off scam to benefit the banking sector that they are.

Private UK pensions, especially for the mid and upper classes, have long been over-generous. Hefty tax breaks, etc. All that is happening is those benefits are steadily being reined in (e.g. later cashing-in). There is little you or anyone can do to stop it. The UK economy is in longterm decline, particularly outside London. Weaker economy = weaker pensions.

[XJ Flyer]

lamboman100 said:

XJ Flyer said:

lamboman100 said:

Few people in the UK take their full or partial private pension at 55. The number of people affected by this change is small.

Fact is, Britons are living longer, the working population is aging, and the UK economy is sunsetting. Britain simply cannot afford generous pensions anymore.

Or to put it another way capitalism British style can't deliver.Most people won't live to collect all their investment as it stands now.So how old is everyone supposed to be living and supposed to be working for in this brave new Britain and it's supposedly well performing G8 economy.While if Britain can't afford to pay pensions any more then don't expect or compel people to contribute to the scam.Let them keep ( all of ) their wages and invest them as they wish.In which case pensions would be seen for the rip off scam to benefit the banking sector that they are.

Private UK pensions, especially for the mid and upper classes, have long been over-generous. Hefty tax breaks, etc. All that is happening is those benefits are steadily being reined in (e.g. later cashing-in). There is little you or anyone can do to stop it. The UK economy is in longterm decline, particularly outside London. Weaker economy = weaker pensions.

Meanwhile the Cons keep telling us how well the economy is performing compared to other developed countries.They can't have it both ways either it's not working or it is.

None of which has anything to do with the rip off idea of pensions which have always been about a scam that's rigged in the pension providers' favour.By making sure that most pension contributors won't see all the money they are due and have invested.Which is the only reason why any provider would have any incentive to be involved.That fact has applied regardless of the state of the economy or wether it's the state pension system or private.Simply because the interests of pension contributors are directly opposed to those of the pension providers.This plan obviously just being yet another symptom and part of all that.

[turbobloke]

sidicks said:

arp1 said:

It's a vicious cycle... Private pensions were great back in the day, then went down and public seemed the best, now public ones are being attacked and now private too... We are all in this together against Westmonster and the parasites that line their own beds at the cosy of every hard working individual in this country, so can we lay off the public/private one puma ship and work together and see it for what it is and that it's those running the show that need voted out and others (who I don't know) in to try and sort this mess out... After all, we are ALL paying for the bankers feck up..... And try are still getting paid bonuses! Go figure!

As well as not understanding about pensions it appears you also don't understand about government spending and basic economics (and who is responsible for more than a decade of overspending).

This cycle repeats frequently on PH, you would think that people protesting about public sector pension reforms would at least understand the basics of their own pension schemes in relation to what's available elsewhere and what it costs when you have to fund it in full. The rest isn't surprising in that context.

[Murph7355]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Front line staff deserve it and the other benefits of the job.

Back office staff do not.

[arp1]

turbobloke said:

sidicks said:

arp1 said:

It's a vicious cycle... Private pensions were great back in the day, then went down and public seemed the best, now public ones are being attacked and now private too... We are all in this together against Westmonster and the parasites that line their own beds at the cosy of every hard working individual in this country, so can we lay off the public/private one puma ship and work together and see it for what it is and that it's those running the show that need voted out and others (who I don't know) in to try and sort this mess out... After all, we are ALL paying for the bankers feck up..... And try are still getting paid bonuses! Go figure!

As well as not understanding about pensions it appears you also don't understand about government spending and basic economics (and who is responsible for more than a decade of overspending).

This cycle repeats frequently on PH, you would think that people protesting about public sector pension reforms would at least understand the basics of their own pension schemes in relation to what's available elsewhere and what it costs when you have to fund it in full. The rest isn't surprising in that context.

So we should be lucky that we are having our existing schemes torn up and be forced onto one that is not fit for purpose and grossly penalises you if and when you cannot meet the requirements? (Going off on a tangent now this thread, apologies)

[Sheepshanks]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Of course they ignore it - it's not much use to them today.

My daughter's a nurse - she's in the NHS pension scheme but most of her similar age colleagues aren't as they don't believe it'll pay out. They think she's mad paying into it.

[anonymous-user]

First time in ages that I've felt smug about the fact that I'll be 55 in 2018