US: 'Pregnant' intruder shot dead by home owner
Discussion
guards red said:
Jimbeaux said:
Don't despair, gun control is not a difficult thing. Use your fingertip on the trigger, not your finger; squeeze, don't pull.
Thank you for that, I find gun control hilarious too. Got any other good ones?Actually, never mind.
Edited by guards red on Friday 25th July 19:34
Derek Smith said:
Come to that, since when has liberal become a term of criticism, and on PH, contempt?
Since the word lost its original meaning and was misappropriated by leftist authoritarian scum of the Guardianista variety. True liberals would be more than slightly embarrassed by the sorts of interfering P.C. do-gooder a
hole who describe themselves as liberal these days. Derek Smith said:
loafer123 said:
Just because people disagree with your liberal point of view,
Since when is belief in the rule of law a liberal point of view? Come to that, since when has lynch mob rule become right wing (one would assume as the opposite)?This chap murdered someone. Not being the done thing to execute someone on assumptions is hardly liberal.
Come to that, since when has liberal become a term of criticism, and on PH, contempt?
toohuge said:
Perhaps we should also be looking at the local law enforcement. These two were not first time offenders.... if society took a stronger view on 'petty' crime (even calling that devalues it) then we would not find ourselves in this situation.
If we look at the number of recent incidences similar to this, nearly all of home owners are reacting to multiple thefts, not just one offs.
So if the first time offenders had a big enough deterrent not to re-offend then many of these situations would be avoided.
Chris
Not law enforcement, the Judiciary. The mug shots indicate that law enforcement has bagged them multiple times, it is the oh so leftness of West Coast juris prudence that continues to turn them loose.If we look at the number of recent incidences similar to this, nearly all of home owners are reacting to multiple thefts, not just one offs.
So if the first time offenders had a big enough deterrent not to re-offend then many of these situations would be avoided.
Chris
Einion Yrth said:
Derek Smith said:
Come to that, since when has liberal become a term of criticism, and on PH, contempt?
Since the word lost its original meaning and was misappropriated by leftist authoritarian scum of the Guardianista variety. True liberals would be more than slightly embarrassed by the sorts of interfering P.C. do-gooder ahole who describe themselves as liberal these days. Randy Winkman said:
Einion Yrth said:
Derek Smith said:
Come to that, since when has liberal become a term of criticism, and on PH, contempt?
Since the word lost its original meaning and was misappropriated by leftist authoritarian scum of the Guardianista variety. True liberals would be more than slightly embarrassed by the sorts of interfering P.C. do-gooder ahole who describe themselves as liberal these days. Randy Winkman said:
Einion Yrth said:
Derek Smith said:
Come to that, since when has liberal become a term of criticism, and on PH, contempt?
Since the word lost its original meaning and was misappropriated by leftist authoritarian scum of the Guardianista variety. True liberals would be more than slightly embarrassed by the sorts of interfering P.C. do-gooder ahole who describe themselves as liberal these days. Classical liberalism is a political philosophy and ideology belonging to liberalism in which primary emphasis is placed on securing the freedom of the individual by limiting the power of the government. It advocates civil liberties with a limited government under the rule of law, private property rights, and belief in laissez-faire economic liberalism.
I also believe you can believe in religious freedom and the freedom to be shot of religion.
The fact that the liberal party (libdems in fact) has used the term as a cloak is not reason to condemn liberals, any more than the left should condemn the tories for believing in unions.
Derek Smith said:
Randy Winkman said:
Einion Yrth said:
Derek Smith said:
Come to that, since when has liberal become a term of criticism, and on PH, contempt?
Since the word lost its original meaning and was misappropriated by leftist authoritarian scum of the Guardianista variety. True liberals would be more than slightly embarrassed by the sorts of interfering P.C. do-gooder ahole who describe themselves as liberal these days. Classical liberalism is a political philosophy and ideology belonging to liberalism in which primary emphasis is placed on securing the freedom of the individual by limiting the power of the government. It advocates civil liberties with a limited government under the rule of law, private property rights, and belief in laissez-faire economic liberalism.
I also believe you can believe in religious freedom and the freedom to be shot of religion.
The fact that the liberal party (libdems in fact) has used the term as a cloak is not reason to condemn liberals, any more than the left should condemn the tories for believing in unions.
Jimbeaux said:
After multiple robberies and a beat down with a broken bone?
You’ve got to decide for yourself what this guy was doing: defending himself, or doling out punishment for a wrong doing against him.If he had been armed when punched, and pulled his gun, he would be entirely entitled to fire, and I may well have done the same thing. I wouldn’t claim it as a victory though – my life would be shattered, and I would be haunted by my actions in the wee hours no matter how justified I was in the moment. A bit like surviving a genuine car accident that resulted in the other party’s death.
I’d say he had no need to defend himself anymore though, the burglars had left the building. True, there may be a likelihood that they would return another night, but then you’d have to say he had killed them for their potential to re-offend against him. Movies tell us Pre-Crime is a flawed concept.
So if he was instead getting his revenge on these people, then he has obviously broken the law – there can be no denying that. Vigilante justice is illegal. And shooting someone because they punched you is a disproportionate return of force. Which is why we don’t physical dismember or harm people found guilty of burglary or home invasion through the courts. Punishment should fit the crime. This guy has proved not only that he is incapable of making that decision appropriately, but he revels in it too. But he’s like a million years old. I’m not bothered if he goes to jail or not personally. He’s probably been harmless for all his 80 odd years and it isn’t in the public’s interest to convict him nor is he considered a danger by those in his community. I can still think he is an unpleasant, gun toting old fud, as that’s what his remarks and actions make him out to be.
Wrathalanche said:
I can still think he is an unpleasant, gun toting old fud, as that’s what his remarks and actions make him out to be.
So why wait till the 3rd attack to "exact revenge"?They obviously thought he would stay down and he did not. 3 robberies could quite easily be construed as being targeted, and at 80 years old he took the opportunity when it arose, or perhaps he should have waited till attack number 4?? - not like he shot the bloody postman is it?
Baryonyx said:
It reads like she was just using that as a ploy to gain sympathy. I don't blame him for shooting her, he has a right to defend himself and his property. Hopefully, justice will prevail and the other one will face life in prison or the death penalty, and this old man will be left to live his days in peace.
But that's the whole point, he was not defending his property or himself.The girl had left his property. If all he wanted to do was defend his property, he should have made sure they could not get back in after they had left and called 911. But he didn't, he chose to follow them outside and kill her.onyx39 said:
But that's the whole point, he was not defending his property or himself.The girl had left his property. If all he wanted to do was defend his property, he should have made sure they could not get back in after they had left and called 911. But he didn't, he chose to follow them outside and kill her.
IT IS
A
DIFFERENT
COUNTRY
WITH
DIFFERENT
LAWS
AND
A
DIFFERENT
CULTURE.
Edited by E24man on Friday 25th July 22:27
loafer123 said:
Just because people disagree with your liberal point of view, it does not make them assholes.
Personally, I think that some of the views on the Peaches Geldof threat were extreme, like you, but I can understand why people might hold those views.
In this case, having been repeatedly burgled by the same people, I can understand why a vulnerable old man might have reached the end of his tether. I would have shot to wound but he is a different culture and a different generation to me.
DerekPersonally, I think that some of the views on the Peaches Geldof threat were extreme, like you, but I can understand why people might hold those views.
In this case, having been repeatedly burgled by the same people, I can understand why a vulnerable old man might have reached the end of his tether. I would have shot to wound but he is a different culture and a different generation to me.
I have fully quoted above, not the partial quote you used.
You will note that liberal has not been used in a pejorative context, it is you who have perceived that slight.
As an ex police officer, I am sure you recognise the personal stress that being a repeated and targetted victim of crime creates, so I am surprised at your lack of empathy for the victim of the burglary, whether he is a murderer under law or not.
loafer123 said:
loafer123 said:
Just because people disagree with your liberal point of view, it does not make them assholes.
Personally, I think that some of the views on the Peaches Geldof threat were extreme, like you, but I can understand why people might hold those views.
In this case, having been repeatedly burgled by the same people, I can understand why a vulnerable old man might have reached the end of his tether. I would have shot to wound but he is a different culture and a different generation to me.
DerekPersonally, I think that some of the views on the Peaches Geldof threat were extreme, like you, but I can understand why people might hold those views.
In this case, having been repeatedly burgled by the same people, I can understand why a vulnerable old man might have reached the end of his tether. I would have shot to wound but he is a different culture and a different generation to me.
I have fully quoted above, not the partial quote you used.
You will note that liberal has not been used in a pejorative context, it is you who have perceived that slight.
As an ex police officer, I am sure you recognise the personal stress that being a repeated and targetted victim of crime creates, so I am surprised at your lack of empathy for the victim of the burglary, whether he is a murderer under law or not.
It is also strange that a burglar will not grass and stand up in court against another burglar due to an unwritten criminal code, yet they will happily do the same for a home owner they have robbed but may have fought back.
loafer123 said:
Derek
I have fully quoted above, not the partial quote you used.
You will note that liberal has not been used in a pejorative context, it is you who have perceived that slight.
As an ex police officer, I am sure you recognise the personal stress that being a repeated and targetted victim of crime creates, so I am surprised at your lack of empathy for the victim of the burglary, whether he is a murderer under law or not.
Interestingly in an earlier part, old Del has already decided that the 80yr old is a murderer.I have fully quoted above, not the partial quote you used.
You will note that liberal has not been used in a pejorative context, it is you who have perceived that slight.
As an ex police officer, I am sure you recognise the personal stress that being a repeated and targetted victim of crime creates, so I am surprised at your lack of empathy for the victim of the burglary, whether he is a murderer under law or not.
Our very own Judge DREDD!
loafer123 said:
As an ex police officer, I am sure you recognise the personal stress that being a repeated and targetted victim of crime creates, so I am surprised at your lack of empathy for the victim of the burglary, whether he is a murderer under law or not.
Derek Smith said:
I feel sorry for the bloke suffering a series of burglaries, but this is cold-blooded execution.
The offender should be punished to the full extent of the law.And, of course, so should the bloke himself. He cannot avail himself of any defences in law to the shooting - if the report in the press is correct. So he should be charged with one of the divisions of homicide.
Further, his actions after the incident, if the reports are correct, do not suggest a stress related cause..
I can see no justification for shooting a person who has tried to run away, is no threat, and, it would seem, is compliant.
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