Peace between Israel and Palestine

[anonymous-user]

smegmore said:

There will never be peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

Their respective sky daddies will make sure of that.

/thread

I think there are many very moderate sky daddy followers on both sides that can accept there might be room for three(!!!) sky daddys.
It's the extremists on both sides that are the trouble.
If only the moderates could prevail.......

[smegmore]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The problem being that the moderates are being led by the extremists on both sides.

[loose cannon]

There will be an uneasy peace for a year or so then it will all kick off again
They will never resolve there differences,
I like to think its religeon that is the root cause but take away religeon and the world would still be at it,
We have genes to fight and kill it won't ever change

[g3org3y]

I thought Blair was supposed to sort this out?

[grumbledoak]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

How? In a room of pacifists, the exception who will fight is the winner every time.

[anonymous-user]

grumbledoak said:

How? In a room of pacifists, the exception who will fight is the winner every time.

No, the rest leave the room, lock in the one who wants to fight, go for a drink.

[avinalarf]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

They can,it is the fear whipped up by the extremists,on both sides, that fuels the fire.
I heard today there will be a march in London against the fighting in the area.
Want to take a bet how many banners will be inflammatory and name calling and how many will be calling for a just peace for both sides ?

[Mrr T]

A good first step in my view would be for Israel to dump its mad PR electoral system and use FPP. This would marginalise the smaller parties which tend to hold more extreme views and allow the majority to start to address the issues of the poverty and lack of education of the 1.8M Arabs within the borders of Israel.

[markcoznottz]

g3org3y said:

I thought Blair was supposed to sort this out?

He is doing, have you not seen his new house in Connaught square?

[joema]

Not while people are still believing in gods and hallowed ground. Nutters

[FatSumo]

They need a common enemy to concentrate their destructive efforts on.

Do Danepak have a sales rep they fancy sending to the region?

[otolith]

The Palestinian people elect a government which wants peace and will not tolerate extremism. Israel normalises relations with Palestine and lifts the blockade.

[smegmore]

fesuvious said:

Only one sky daddy sent down words calling for Jihad, the other preached peace and tolerance.

The Koran calls for the destruction of every other ideal or faith until Shariah prevails in a caliphate that spans the globe.

Personally, I believe in no religion, and I am not Jewish.
Lets us not forget - Israel has not committed to the destruction of the state of Palestine.

Hamas has however openly declared its desire to destroy and eradicate the state of Israel.

That's a bit religionist, isn't it?

The followers of the religion of peace and tolerance to all other faiths will be along shortly to denounce you as filthy kuffar infidel unbeliever scum who will go in the hottest part of the eternal fire unless you renounce your disgusting non-beliefs and find the true way.

Or something.

[Pints]

Scuffers said:

Pints said:

What's there to debate? Two nations of people with histories and claims to the land going back thousands of years. Each believe they have a divine right to be on this hallowed ground - as they see it.

That sort of history will not be enable the conflict to be resolved and peace established with reasoned debate.

it's a bit more complex than that.

one side what's the eradication of the other from the face of the earth, the other side just wants to live in their "promised land"

actually, if you removed Israel from the equation, I bet there would still be a war going on between the different sects of Islam (much like there is elsewhere)

IMHO the basic problem is that the whole region is full of stupid, uneducated, idiots that are easily lead by some old cynical morons with a 1,000 year old axe to grind, and what's made all this worse is we have poured a shed load of money (and thus weapons) in that re a little more dangerous that a sharpened Guava fruit.

add in the internet and 24H tv, and you have a worldwide audience for the nutters to recruit even more simpletons from the west with age old stories of injustice and how many virgins they will get if they martyr themselves.

All you did was use more words to say what I did. Over several thousand years the weapons used to fight conflicts (and that includes TV and the internet) are bound to change, and saying that religion is involved is like stating that Formula One is sport involving cars.

[Pints]

avinalarf said:

That's a bit gloomy Pints.
We are better than that.
Let's take Nelson Mandela or Martin Luther King as our examples.
Two great,strong men,that helped to forge hope out of despair.

Gloomy? Or just realistic?

Using Mandela perhaps isn't the best example. Take a look at the state South Africa is in today; hardly a land of milk and honey. Hope has faded and there is today far more despair than has been seen in the past couple of decades. (I don't know enough about the impact MLK did or didn't have to pass comment.)

Edit: Having seen the other comments also posted on this thread, it'd seem I'm certainly not alone in my "gloom".

Edited by Pints on Saturday 26th July 14:25

[ArmaghMan]

avinalarf said:

TheJimi said:

Notwithstanding a radical shift in outlook on both sides, it'll never happen, imo.

And definitely not while Hamas (and it's ilk) exists.

It is possible to marginalise the extremists e.g. as with the IRA, albeit not completely eliminate them.
I am certain the great majority wish to live in peace and just get on with their lives.
Both Palestinians and Israelis deserve that,a decent life,where they can aspire to go forward.

Sensible start, but incredibly difficult. Current conflict starts with horrendous murder of 3 Jewish school kids. Now hundreds of Paestinians dead including scores of children. Attitudes hardened on both sides.
With each passing day of conflict and deaths marginalisation of the " terrorists" becomes less likely.
Say what you like about Thatcher but her stance on the hunger strike in 81 put any chance of peace back 10 years.
" we don't negotiate with terrorists " make a good sound bite but in reality at some points the RA and the Brits were going to have to sit round the table. Politicians have to lead, take risks, do the unthinkable. Major declared public ally that talking to the Provos would " make him sick" while his representatives were in talks.
If you want to marginalise the " terrorists" you have to talk seriously to them. You have difficult issues to deal with, and these can last years.....look at the whole fiasco around the OTRs here!
But when you do marginalise the " terrorists" you make it very very difficult for them. At a guess Hamas has tacit support from a massive percentage of Palestinians, just as the RA had in NI during the troubles in the Nationalist community here. Not physical support or membership but a begrudging acceptance that they had a genuine grievance.
Until Israel grasps the nettle and makes serious concessions then it will have no chance of peace. How many new " terrorists" have been created by the latest murders in Gaza.
Israel has so far been lucky, in that the terrorists have not managed a spectacular yet, but one day they will.

[audidoody]

If all Israel's Jewish inhabitants were transported to the Plant Zog overnight and left the place empty, Hamas and the PLO would be rocketing each other within two minutes as a prelude to a full-scale civil war. That's even before Jordan and the Egyptian army mobilised. And of course the ISIS crowd would be waiting in the wings.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

audidoody said:

If all Israel's Jewish inhabitants were transported to the Plant Zog overnight and left the place empty, Hamas and the PLO would be rocketing each other within two minutes as a prelude to a full-scale civil war. That's even before Jordan and the Egyptian army mobilised. And of course the ISIS crowd would be waiting in the wings.

Hezbollah...don't leave those charmers out.

[Mermaid]

g3org3y said:

I thought Blair was supposed to sort this out?

Offer him as a sacrifice - peace for a few days at least.

$$$$$$, yankees to bankroll a new Marshall plan, spilt the country in two equal parts, sharing resources.

[Chimune]

if the Palestinians took a passafist ghandi style approach, the pressure from rest of the world on the israelis would get them everything they want.

hamas, iran, hezbolla et all would be out on their ear. thats why its wont happen.
they are happy with the current situation. it keeps them in power.

ive lived in israell and holidayed in egypt. 3 things struck me:
1. the isrealis are stubborn and tough as old boots. they will never risk what they have built.
2. the arabs are kind and hospitable. they have been fked over by their leaders many times.
3. jerusalem is doomed as a city. its existance is a major part of the middle east problems. the fight over the holy land is just the fight over jerusalem extended.

my plan.....evacuate the holy land, nuke jerusalem ( just an air blast ! quicker than buldozing it ) then let everyone back in 30 years later. no-one is fighting over a parking lot !