Peace between Israel and Palestine
Discussion
MX7!
I don't care what I don't like or what you don't like, the Palestinians simply would not settle for your decision, that's hard fact! It isn't simply a case of them finding it unsavoury, it isn't emotive, it would be absolutely unacceptable to them.
By unacceptable I mean they'd punish the Israelis to the end of the earth for it!
Again, Jews have been carrying around the tale of their exodus for thousands of years and their return in the twentieth century was partially based on this being ingrained in their psyche. The Palestinian memory would be just as long.
You are deluded if you think they'd settle for it.
I don't care what I don't like or what you don't like, the Palestinians simply would not settle for your decision, that's hard fact! It isn't simply a case of them finding it unsavoury, it isn't emotive, it would be absolutely unacceptable to them.
By unacceptable I mean they'd punish the Israelis to the end of the earth for it!
Again, Jews have been carrying around the tale of their exodus for thousands of years and their return in the twentieth century was partially based on this being ingrained in their psyche. The Palestinian memory would be just as long.
You are deluded if you think they'd settle for it.
MX7 said:
As harsh as it sounds, people do need to be divided, and that's all the way from Muslims in India to Chelsea and Arsenal fans. It would be great to ask them to just get on, but it doesn't happen. India knew that in '47, and I think that the outcome in India is testament.
A few need to be divided, but a lot do live together in peace and harmony - 100 million+ Muslims in India. One Israeltine.TheRealFingers99 said:
otolith said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
otolith said:
The situation in Palestine has been a significant part of the motivation of suicide attacks in the West - which is probably more effective than getting them to blow themselves up in Israel.
And your source is? As I said, Palestine is an easy peasy tag on justification for acts in the West (given the West's support for Israel), but the leap to it being the motivation is tenuous, any link to Fatah or Hamas much more so. Again, the idea that there is one unified "militant Islam" is horlicks.
I'm sorry if this doesn't fit in with your simplistic view of the world, and that I'm unable to lie down and be your willing man of straw, but deal with it. Read something a bit more intelligent than the Daily Mail.
If that isn't obvious to you, perhaps you should read something other than Socialist Worker.
avinalarf said:
I have started this topic in the naive hope that it might be a constructive debate...
Let's have a sensible, reasoned, debate that does not descend into the pointless arguments,entrenched and biased opinions,that other topics on PH,the media and other social media forums have led to.
More chance of peace in the middle East...Let's have a sensible, reasoned, debate that does not descend into the pointless arguments,entrenched and biased opinions,that other topics on PH,the media and other social media forums have led to.
Mermaid said:
A few need to be divided, but a lot do live together in peace and harmony - 100 million+ Muslims in India. One Israeltine.
Plenty of Arabs in Israel have no problem. I'm not saying that it's the only way, or for 100% of the population, but there are certainly instances where it's the only way to advance. anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm not sure if it's me or you that doesn't understand this thread. 'How could peace be achieved' seems to be the question. I don't give a toss if they accept it or not, I'm talking about creating an area where the policing would be strong enough that you really wouldn't want to attack anyone else. An area where economic viability takes preference over long term hatred. An area where you don't feel intimidation from either side. We know what the Palestinians would accept, and it's unacceptable.
otolith said:
The situation in Palestine is a significant factor in the radicalisation of young men in the West, along with interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan.
If that isn't obvious to you, perhaps you should read something other than Socialist Worker.
For sure -- but that doesn't simply apply to Muslims! And why exclude women? If that isn't obvious to you, perhaps you should read something other than Socialist Worker.
Again, radicalisation does not imply martyrdom (nor does martyrdom necessarily imply Islam). Where is the link between Hamas or Fatah and western suicide bombers? There simply isn't one.
It's an argument without merit.
And I don't read the Socialist Worker: I'm a Libertarian Socialist, not a Trot (yep, the splits in the Left are as big as those in Islam).
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Probably because it was so f
king stupid it's not really worthy of discussion. All you've done is make Gaza v2.0. It's about as dumb as it gets. If after the withdrawal of Jews from Gaza it was all rosey, I'd agree. The reality is that the Palestinians have demonstrated that they are very literal, and anything but no Israel is unacceptable. anonymous said:
[redacted]
You know what, you really sound fking nasty. Plenty of people on Stormfront will support your views though. MX7, I suggested that the Jews being exiled to the U.S was absurd( also stated that I didn't actually mean it as a solution) I also suggested that the Palestinians being exiled to Jordan was absurd.
So what is nasty about that?
However I would suggest for the sake of this thread that you cool your jets and debate like a normal person otherwise I will have to press you as to what you were implying with your 'Stormfront' comment.
So what is nasty about that?
However I would suggest for the sake of this thread that you cool your jets and debate like a normal person otherwise I will have to press you as to what you were implying with your 'Stormfront' comment.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 31st July 21:26
Guam said:
Not sure I would use the partition of India as an example for anything, the bloodshed was awful on both sides, imho, its the epitome of how not to handle a situation like that again.
It was both savage and drastic, but it did the job, more or less, which I thought was the motivation behind the thread. It isn't a situation where a light touch will achieve anything. Peace talks are platitudes that sometimes only last for a few days. There needs to be a tectonic shift and it needs to be done under international guidance as humanely as possible.
My idea isn't just about the West Bank or Gaza. It's about ending the Palestinian refugee camps in Syria, Lebanon and Jordan too. It would take decades to achieve, but with proper governance, and probably diverting a lot of aid that Israel gets to get it achieved, we might not be talking about this in a few decades.
It's my only realistic suggestion to this thread, and I honestly believe that it's the only one that has a chance of working.
Palestine is essentially a sthole. It needs to be made into a functioning state.
The USA provides some 3 billion dollars of aid to Israel each year, much of which is spent on weapons so the Israelis can protect themselves.
The USA provides some 300 million dollars of aid to the Palestinians each year, one tenth of the Israeli aid, some of which is spent on rockets, some of which is stolen, hardly any of which finds its way to the ordinary people.
90% of Palestinians work in agriculture i.e. are poor and have relatively tough lives.
Solution:
1. Identify a moderate, educated, Western-friendly yet respected Palestinian leader.
2. Provide said leader with massive financial resources helping to win election.
3. Once leader is established with a viable political structure and has public support, wipe out Hamas.
(they won't wipe out Hamas now because of the vacuum that may be filled by e.g. ISIS.
4. Ramp up aid to Palestine by several billion.
5. Establish non-agriculture economy, make it a free trade port, encourage banks to locate there, make it a zero-tax territory for the next 20 years.
6. Essentially, give Palestine something to lose beyond a few goats.
7. Make the goodies dependent on peace with Israel.
Right, next!
thole. It needs to be made into a functioning state.The USA provides some 3 billion dollars of aid to Israel each year, much of which is spent on weapons so the Israelis can protect themselves.
The USA provides some 300 million dollars of aid to the Palestinians each year, one tenth of the Israeli aid, some of which is spent on rockets, some of which is stolen, hardly any of which finds its way to the ordinary people.
90% of Palestinians work in agriculture i.e. are poor and have relatively tough lives.
Solution:
1. Identify a moderate, educated, Western-friendly yet respected Palestinian leader.
2. Provide said leader with massive financial resources helping to win election.
3. Once leader is established with a viable political structure and has public support, wipe out Hamas.
(they won't wipe out Hamas now because of the vacuum that may be filled by e.g. ISIS.
4. Ramp up aid to Palestine by several billion.
5. Establish non-agriculture economy, make it a free trade port, encourage banks to locate there, make it a zero-tax territory for the next 20 years.
6. Essentially, give Palestine something to lose beyond a few goats.
7. Make the goodies dependent on peace with Israel.
Right, next!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Idiotic question, but if I rephrase for you; anonymous said:
[redacted]
Then, yes, if they have a real chance of prosperity and peace, why not? This seems really dumb where you have no suggestion, and you question me repeatedly about why I think my idea would work. We know that we have a cat & mouse situation. Ultimate partition is the only solution.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff