Don't rub Max Mosley up the wrong way

Don't rub Max Mosley up the wrong way

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Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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JensenA said:
So if reporters photographed you having sex with your wife, and published foto's of it, you would be quite happy with that?
Well, whilst you pay for sex with the wife, you do so in a somewhat different manner than with a hooker...

And I believe "consent" can be debatable at times with hookers, not saying that is the case here but nonetheless it isn't all like "Pretty Woman"...

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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JensenA said:
So if reporters photographed you having sex with your wife, and published foto's of it, you would be quite happy with that?

It was a sex act between consenting adults, he just happens to like his sex to be a bit more exciting than 'normal'

Ps - what is normal sex?
What makes you think that?

As I said, I didn't view the video of the bloke, the reason being that I think the videoing was wrong and me watching it would have made me culpable. It was a moral decision. It doesn't mean that I think anyone who did watch it was immoral. It's just a me thing. All morals are personal.

However, sex with a prostitute is often not consensual. That is the law. You might not agree with that, but many do.

Further, many people look upon sexual activity with prostitutes, i.e. buying-in women, to be immoral. You might not think so, but many do. Indeed, Mosley himself said that he was mortified when his family found out.

Now if someone was in a job of great responsibility, one where he had power and influence with no/little supervision and the function included supervision of rules, regs and there were £millions involved, then if that person took part in activities which rendered him/her liable to blackmail, then the person would be sacked.

In other words, these words are mine, not yours, but feel free to repeat them, as I say, in other words, I think Mosley was wrong to take part in such activity when he was in control of F1.

It's a choice. When I was a police officer my freedom of action was limited. I couldn't take part in politics, live where I liked, take various jobs, perform some charity/volunteer work. This was reasonable I felt. Not buying women seems a reasonable restriction for such a high income job like president of the FIA I reckon.

I also believe that he ruined motor sport.

When I was with my dad, a friend of mine said something which upset him. I'm not sure what it was, but as my father came through the war believing that the bits about the Germans murdering Jews and others were rubbish, and then seeing the evidence in newspapers, he became strongly anti-fascist. So he dragged me away one day to Brick Lane (I think) to see Mosley snr and his boy rabble rousing. The occasion left me feeling a wee bit convinced that there was such a things as evil.

That also puts me against the bloke, but then I assume there were quite a few of the same mind.

I accept that it might well have prejudiced me against the bloke, but even so, given the bare (!) facts I reckon the situation is clear. He should not have indulged in activities which make him liable to blackmail.

The video is inconsequential.

Gandahar

9,600 posts

127 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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If Max Mosley doesn't like Google then what will he think of me when I can state the following

"Concentration camp inmates were also shaved. Yet, as Mr Price pointed out, they had
their headsshaved. The Claimant, for reasons best known to himself, enjoyed having
his bottom shaved – apparently for its own sake rather than because of any supposed
Nazi connotation"

There's no point going on about Google showing that picture of his bottom when in the actual court writings you can read that.

For those interested

http://www.5rb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Mosl...

He's still trying to stick the genie back into the bottle

He should just put up with Ze punishment in my view, non Nazi of course.





Gandahar

9,600 posts

127 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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JensenA said:
Derek Smith said:
The most remarkable thing about all of this is the man's lack of shame. He bought women to beat and humiliate, dressing them in prison garb, very much like that used in extermination camps in the war, and inspected them for lice - but let's make this clear, it was nothing to do with Nazies, even though the women were dressed, manikin-like, in German military uniform.

This man is quite repulsive.

All he does every time he puts his head above the parapet is put himself in the firing line again.

He said that the expose of his prostitute orgy was humiliating. Well he must like being humiliated. Oh, wait . . . I suddenly see.

All this hype about the right to know things about this obnoxious man is to make it more likely that the EU court ruling will be ignored. This is not about privacy, it is about knowing who gets their socks of beating and humiliating women.

Next he'll be wanting his history of vile, ultra-right-wing politics to be taken from the internet search engines.

Not to mention him ruining motor sport in this country.
So if reporters photographed you having sex with your wife, and published foto's of it, you would be quite happy with that?

It was a sex act between consenting adults, he just happens to like his sex to be a bit more exciting than 'normal'

Ps - what is normal sex?
It wasn't reporters filming it for a start. Also it was not just a sex act, it was an employer and employee relationship, even if just on a temporary basis. HSE rules might have been impinged, also I doubt he had insurance to cover the depraved acts.

You think I am joking?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/u...





Some Gump

12,671 posts

185 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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Interesting interpretation there Derek. Earlier i was quite bemused at seeing that an ex copper had not watched the video, imagined it's contents, then found the bloke guilty - then not changed that verdict when the video's contents were found to be different to previous imagination.

I' m guessing my eyebrow raising is down to 2 things - first, you've always presented an image of a bobby well adept in the law, and often a voice of reason seeing both sides. It is easy to forget that people in any job (including law enforcement) are also human, and emotions can and will overcome objectivity.
The second factor is that i have no experience whatsoever with prostitution - so my default position is that Mr Moseley can do whatever he wants as long as it's not upsetting others / tampering with an animal or whatnot. Personally, i see no public interest in anything he chooses to do unless it's a crime - but the public spend millions a year to learn about whatever clothes / perfume / semen that utter waste of space jordan is wearing this week so what do i know?

Anyways, my point i spose - your initial arguement was that he was a nazi / sadist. Then you learned he was acting more like a masochist, so the arguement is now that he's open to blackmail. My suggestion is that you don't like the bloke, and so are finding ways to make him wrong.

Ps - i'm not defending him at all - i'm no fan either. Between him and bernie, they've changed f1 from a hotbed of innovation to a cack blingflest worse than Kahns worst in bradford, moodily surrounded by airs of corruption whilst lining their own pockets. However, my dislike for him as a person doesn't mean he deserves to be hung drawn and quartered by the gutter press over his sex life - that is his personal business not his professional business and the 2 should remain seperate.

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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Some Gump said:
Interesting interpretation there Derek. Earlier i was quite bemused at seeing that an ex copper had not watched the video, imagined it's contents, then found the bloke guilty - then not changed that verdict when the video's contents were found to be different to previous imagination.

I' m guessing my eyebrow raising is down to 2 things - first, you've always presented an image of a bobby well adept in the law, and often a voice of reason seeing both sides. It is easy to forget that people in any job (including law enforcement) are also human, and emotions can and will overcome objectivity.
The second factor is that i have no experience whatsoever with prostitution - so my default position is that Mr Moseley can do whatever he wants as long as it's not upsetting others / tampering with an animal or whatnot. Personally, i see no public interest in anything he chooses to do unless it's a crime - but the public spend millions a year to learn about whatever clothes / perfume / semen that utter waste of space jordan is wearing this week so what do i know?

Anyways, my point i spose - your initial arguement was that he was a nazi / sadist. Then you learned he was acting more like a masochist, so the arguement is now that he's open to blackmail. My suggestion is that you don't like the bloke, and so are finding ways to make him wrong.

Ps - i'm not defending him at all - i'm no fan either. Between him and bernie, they've changed f1 from a hotbed of innovation to a cack blingflest worse than Kahns worst in bradford, moodily surrounded by airs of corruption whilst lining their own pockets. However, my dislike for him as a person doesn't mean he deserves to be hung drawn and quartered by the gutter press over his sex life - that is his personal business not his professional business and the 2 should remain seperate.
I didn’t image the contents of the video, I read reports of it.

The differences, assuming the current interpretation is correct, makes little difference.

Seeing both sides? I think the job pushes you one way and that way for me is that victims vary. I can’t see that a woman forced in one way or another to put herself at the mercy of an old, decrepit bloke whose sexual fantasies she has to act out is anything other than a victim. Very few women go into prostitution willingly.

As for public interest, I’ve explained my point of view and that is that a person in a responsible job must not indulge in an activity which renders him liable to be blackmailed. If you read what Mosley said in the court - so it must be true - he was humiliated by having his predilections known. So someone with knowledge and proof of his sordid little basement could well have put him in a difficult situation. After all, there’s lots of money around. That has always been my point. All the way through.

Careful with suggesting what I’ve said. The orgy was not nazi based - it was said in court so it must be true.

So a public figure, or a person in a responsible job, or in a responsible position - so 1 and 3 apply - should not do something which could put him under influence. Further, his activities brought the sport into disrepute. And how.

I accept I detest the bloke. However, I think that I have supported my point of view.

Whether the video should have been made and broadcast is another matter.

Some Gump

12,671 posts

185 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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Derek,

That was not your original point. Your original point was that the man was abhorrent because he bought woman to beat and shame - first post had nothing whatsoever about weakness to blackmail.

No biggie, as i said i'm not a fan so people can dislike him as much as they want. I was just suprised that a poster i've always seen in sp&l to be very law orientated / level headed and objective posting like the rest of sp&l. Maybe this thread is just in the wrong sub forum? smile

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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Derek Smith said:
Not buying women seems a reasonable restriction for such a high income job like president of the FIA I reckon.
The role of president of the FIA is an unpaid role.

What has the salary got to do with anything anyway?

dandarez

13,246 posts

282 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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Funny old world isn't it?

When I was fettling my Imp Sport in late 1969, just a few miles up the road from me in Bicester there were four blokes and a telephone, one of whom was Mosley. I thought how wonderful at the time.

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Friday 1st August 2014
quotequote all
Some Gump said:
Derek,

That was not your original point. Your original point was that the man was abhorrent because he bought woman to beat and shame - first post had nothing whatsoever about weakness to blackmail.

No biggie, as i said i'm not a fan so people can dislike him as much as they want. I was just suprised that a poster i've always seen in sp&l to be very law orientated / level headed and objective posting like the rest of sp&l. Maybe this thread is just in the wrong sub forum? smile
I meant that I have been consistent in all my posts on the multitude of threads the orgy came up. He should not have bought women, he should not have put himself in that position.

Mind you, he continues to bring the matter up at seemingly every opportunity. He's supposed to be intelligent, or so they say. Yet he doesn't do the obvious. He's let the NotW dictate a considerable section of his life.

I once thought about suing a company. I went to see a fabulous lawyer, a real cracker, who listened and told me I had an excellent case. His advice was to let it go and get on with my life as going through the courts would just make it much worse for me. He said something like 'not so much beating yourself up, as allowing them to do it for you'. I had the intelligence to accept that what he said was spot on and, remarkably, I followed his advice. The one regret is that I was never able to thank the chap. The only time I think about it is in such circs as these and I always feel a rush of relief that I had the sense not to be all resentful.

Mosely is just opening wounds. He's being really rather silly about it all. The NotW wanted to show him up, humiliate him, in public, and has been able, with his cooperation, to continue to do so. If he'd accept that he was beaten and then just carried on with his life, he'd be a damn site happier. Feeling resentful of a paper that no longer exists and trying to get back at . . . well, who knows, is not sensible adult behaviour. 'Mummy, he's got my Pepper Pig.' 'You've got George Pig though, play with him.' 'Don't want to. I want to sue Google and get it in the news.'

My opinion is that the NotW was the main cause of his loss of power in the FIA. He's now just some sad old fella. All this ranting and raving, bringing the orgy back into the public domain, sort of proves that. When he goes to some do or other, courtesy of his remaining sinecure position in the FIA, people probably ask who he is and they will be told. And the NotW wins yet again.

It takes a bit of bottle to just move on.

The OP's headline misses the point I feel. He's still being rubbed up the wrong way by the NotW. Not bad going for a dead paper.

As I say, I've been consistent through all the threads. I've kept out of the rights or wrongs of the videoing. However, with a job goes responsibilities. If you've got money, it does not give you the right to buy people.

pcvdriver

1,819 posts

198 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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Teppic said:
Correct. Derek has got the story back to front. It was Mosley receiving the beatings and being inspected for lice. The women were dressed in uniforms that were almost, but not quite, resembling those worn by SS officers. But it wasn't Nazi themed. Definitely not.
Would it be rude, or perhaps libelous to suggest they were allegedly British Union of Fascists uniforms laugh

pcvdriver

1,819 posts

198 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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Derek Smith said:
I apologise. I haven't seen the video so only read reports on here.

Mind you, the criticism still stands: he bought women to indulge his odd sexual desires, none of which had anything to do with Nazis of course. I'm guessing that it must have been quite humiliating for these women to have to do as they were told in such circs. It's still buying women.

Now there was a report of an object being stuck up his fundament. Is this correct?

I thought I saw an image of the women being inspected for lice while wearing prison garb. Is this wrong then?
I've not seen the video either - I feel like I've missed out. Seeing Max get the st kicked out of him would bring a certain level of schadenfreude to the fore....

pcvdriver

1,819 posts

198 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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Puggit said:
You have to salute Mosley for the way he's handled this nazi attack on him. I'd be furherious too with the spanking from the press.
Fuhrerious - eben (auf Deutchslish)

pcvdriver

1,819 posts

198 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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Derek Smith said:
I'm more or less with you.

My experience, and it is quite limited, is that most prostitutes have someone running them. The only one who comes to mind who was not being pimped was one who was running another girl.

There are those who are in it as a business, and there are a few of these about. We once did obs on a drugs dealer from a hotel. The manager gave us a 'little used' room, and it turned out that the hotel prostitutes congregated in it. They were a bit posh in the main, well up on those that Mosley bought.

If it was regulated then I'm not sure this would limit the number who are pressurised into it. Mind you, there's much wrong with the way it is run nowadays.

The Australian way seems to be working for them. I can see no real reason for it not to transfer, apart from the likes of Widdicombe et al.

I've met few prostitutes I haven't felt sorry for.

There was one in the hotel that a sergeant of mine was quite taken by. She wasn't particularly good looking but educated and quite sophisticated. She was working her way through university and working her way through a few of the occupants of the hotel. My sergeant reckoned his concern was for her mental health as she was very depressed.
Just had a horrible thought, the mental image of which refuses to leave my head - so I thought better I'd share it with you all.... Just imagine Ann Widdecombe in a shop window in Amsterdam - perfect for those vinegar stroke eradicating moments. Others may be slightly more disturbed when using this mental image. lol!!!

pcvdriver

1,819 posts

198 months

Friday 1st August 2014
quotequote all
JensenA said:
So if reporters photographed you having sex with your wife, and published foto's of it, you would be quite happy with that?

It was a sex act between consenting adults, he just happens to like his sex to be a bit more exciting than 'normal'

Ps - what is normal sex?
S&M fans call it "Vanilla sex"

Walford

2,259 posts

165 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
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munsnet.cr@p

JensenA

5,671 posts

229 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
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pcvdriver said:
JensenA said:
So if reporters photographed you having sex with your wife, and published foto's of it, you would be quite happy with that?

It was a sex act between consenting adults, he just happens to like his sex to be a bit more exciting than 'normal'

Ps - what is normal sex?
S&M fans call it "Vanilla sex"
Vanilla? You mean as in the boring Ice cream flavour that's sits alongside the Pecan and toffee and choc chip Ice creams? S&M 'fans'?? Good lord! You mean there are actually other people out there apart from Max Mosely who indulge in such despicable activities? Good grief I'm shocked! I hope Derek has stopped reading this thread, the poor guy will have palpitations! Are you trying to say that all those Pop videos our daughters have been watching where the likes of Madonna and Rhianna dress up in corsets and thigh boots, with whips and scantily dressed male dancers on their knees have a sexual innuendo to them? Good lord I've always thought it was some kind of 'Pirates of the Caribean' fancy dress routine. I can see where Derek is coming from now, civilised society is falling apart! You'll be telling me next that there are high street shops selling handcuffs and whips!

laugh

epom

11,398 posts

160 months

Wednesday 24th June 2015
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He was interviewed this evening on Irish Radio (Today FM) and I have to say he came across as funny, self depreciating and a very likeable guy. Spoke about lots of things. Changed my opinion of him anyway.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 24th June 2015
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he was on radio 5 this afternoon too

I got the same impression of him as you did

Rather reminded me of someone like John Major - much more rounded now retired

Art0ir

9,401 posts

169 months

Wednesday 24th June 2015
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epom said:
He was interviewed this evening on Irish Radio (Today FM) and I have to say he came across as funny, self depreciating and a very likeable guy. Spoke about lots of things. Changed my opinion of him anyway.
Caught it myself. Matt Cooper is always a good listen in the evening.