Air strikes on ISIS

[TwigtheWonderkid]

fesuvious said:

People really, really need to understand that. And those who think their acts are barbaric and cannot possibly understand where they get their ideology - read the Koran. It is no secret. It is there in print, and for one and a half thousand years.

If you read the bible, it's full of much the same murderous bile, and has been for 600 yrs longer. But most adherents have the good sense to ignore the stupid bits. I guess most Muslims ignore the daft bits of the Koran too.

[petemurphy]

surely the US can find out where these videos are being uploaded from and sort it out? cant understand why theyre being allowed to dominate the social media war. unless its the cia doing it on behalf of the arms companies..

USA needs to retaliate big time for this even if its just for show.

[Digga]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

fesuvious said:

People really, really need to understand that. And those who think their acts are barbaric and cannot possibly understand where they get their ideology - read the Koran. It is no secret. It is there in print, and for one and a half thousand years.

If you read the bible, it's full of much the same murderous bile, and has been for 600 yrs longer. But most adherents have the good sense to ignore the stupid bits. I guess most Muslims ignore the daft bits of the Koran too.

You make a very valid point. One can only assume that the dogma of Christianity has changed, and also we have long had societies of much greater religious diversity, including (tolerance of) atheists and agnostics.

[petemurphy]

any reason why any brit joining IS shouldnt have his family throw out of the UK?

[Einion Yrth]

petemurphy said:

any reason why any brit joining IS shouldnt have his family throw out of the UK?

They may not be guilty of anything and may well be British also? Those who join should certainly be prevented from returning though.

[pc.iow]

Digga said:

Purity14 said:

I have played many strategy warfare games(Which makes me a professional military strategist now )

If I was to just create an army based on land, then I would be wiped out eventually by sea and air.

If they had fighter jets, and the ability to pilot them, id be worried.

ISIS wont be able to sustain what they are doing for long, let alone the 5 year goal that they have published.

As soon as they rattle Israel, it will be all over for ISIS, if it isn't already.

Okay, so that deals with military action, but in a way that is the easy part when you begin to ponder what is to be done about the 'homegrown' fundamentalist and terrorist element?

So when are ISIS due to land in Israel?
It will make things a lot easier as we can merge the two threads together.

[Wills2]

petemurphy said:

any reason why any brit joining IS shouldnt have his family throw out of the UK?

We're not a pub you can't just throw your citizens out, but I can see a time where we might see the return of internment.

This all started with the Arab spring and once again the West has misjudged the situation and backed the wrong horses.

We should have backed Assad, imagine what weapons IS would have had Cameron got his way and intervened in Syria, they'd probably be sat in Damascus right now.

We have proved over many decades that we don't understand the first thing about the middle east, but I still think that they would be killing each other whether we had meddled in their affairs or not.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

fesuvious said:

Digga said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

fesuvious said:

People really, really need to understand that. And those who think their acts are barbaric and cannot possibly understand where they get their ideology - read the Koran. It is no secret. It is there in print, and for one and a half thousand years.

If you read the bible, it's full of much the same murderous bile, and has been for 600 yrs longer. But most adherents have the good sense to ignore the stupid bits. I guess most Muslims ignore the daft bits of the Koran too.

You make a very valid point. One can only assume that the dogma of Christianity has changed, and also we have long had societies of much greater religious diversity, including (tolerance of) atheists and agnostics.

No, the Bible is not filled with 'much the same'.

Is that so?

Whose god orders the most violent plight for nonbelievers while on Earth. Allah or Christian god?
The Christian god because he ordered his followers to kill all those of a different religion, including family members, friends and even their cattle, whereas the Islamic god simply required the enslaving of nonbelievers . Bible says:

“If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people . . . If thou shalt hear . . . Certain men . . . have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword” (Deuteronomy13:6-15).

Koran say:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection” (Koran 9:29).

The bible is chock full of instructions to murder. Have a read of Leviticus.

[JezzaV8]

Wills2 said:

We should have backed Assad, imagine what weapons IS would have had Cameron got his way and intervened in Syria, they'd probably be sat in Damascus right now.

We have proved over many decades that we don't understand the first thing about the middle east, but I still think that they would be killing each other whether we had meddled in their affairs or not.

To be fair I think there was real concern about getting involved in Syria among the public; and don't forget it was only by accident that Ed Milliband prevented our involvement. How can the Middle Eastern policy in the West (inp UK and America) be so flawed... Have we yet suceeded in one of our chaotic involvements.

I hate to say it, but UK is reaping what it has sowed for many years with these young UK based jihadis and its faliure to grasp the nettle on so many occassions.....

[SilverSixer]

Purity14 said:

At some point, based on the optimistic map they have produced.

Love that map. Looks like they reckon they're going to rule Crimea.

Right ho.

[thehawk]

Guam said:

It was the sub continent on that map that made me laugh, what historic call can they possibly have on a Country whose base religions go back 10K years or so?

Well that's the arrogance of this particular religion, from my understanding once Muslims have resided somewhere they feel it's now theirs to claim.

[SilverSixer]

Nice of them to leave the Russkies a port on the Caspian Sea, mind. Perhaps they're not all bad.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Guam said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Is that so?

Whose god orders the most violent plight for nonbelievers while on Earth. Allah or Christian god?
The Christian god because he ordered his followers to kill all those of a different religion, including family members, friends and even their cattle, whereas the Islamic god simply required the enslaving of nonbelievers . Bible says:

“If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people . . . If thou shalt hear . . . Certain men . . . have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword” (Deuteronomy13:6-15).

Koran say:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection” (Koran 9:29).

The bible is chock for of instructions to murder. Have a read of Leviticus.

What part of Old Versus New Testament did you miss?

Isn't the old testament one half of Christianity. And in the new testament, doesn't Jesus says the Old Testament is the word of God and is still to be obeyed?

[Jimbeaux]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That article left out some potential candidates. Additionally, they were incorrect to state that her tenure at SOS was without scandal.

[Jimbeaux]

A past NSA leader,(General Hayden)from a previous administration stated that three immediate things need to happen:
1) Keep infrastructure like the dam and oil fields out of ISIS hands
2) Continue to protect US and allied facilities and personnel.
3) Vastly increase the attacks on ISIS. If they are worrying about their own survival, they will have less time to commit such acts.

The second item is being done but the other two need ramping up. Obama has run on the narrative of "Al Quada is dead", etc. By doing what needs doing now, he will effectively admit he was wrong. Some say that is why he is holding back. I believe he will be forced to act IMO. We shall see.

If security forces cannot determine who the Brit is (if he is a Brit), that is a problem. How many of those out there hold western passports? Imagine when they come home.

[Wills2]

JezzaV8 said:

Wills2 said:

We should have backed Assad, imagine what weapons IS would have had Cameron got his way and intervened in Syria, they'd probably be sat in Damascus right now.

We have proved over many decades that we don't understand the first thing about the middle east, but I still think that they would be killing each other whether we had meddled in their affairs or not.

To be fair I think there was real concern about getting involved in Syria among the public; and don't forget it was only by accident that Ed Milliband prevented our involvement. How can the Middle Eastern policy in the West (inp UK and America) be so flawed... Have we yet suceeded in one of our chaotic involvements.

I hate to say it, but UK is reaping what it has sowed for many years with these young UK based jihadis and its faliure to grasp the nettle on so many occassions.....

We backed a lot of the Arab dictators for years as it suited our interests, then for some unknown reason we decide that backing some of them didn't suit our interests anymore and invade Iraq, support the Arab spring and urge our involvement in backing the Syrian rebels against Assad. (I know he is historically supported by Russia and not the West)

Then when all hell breaks loose, we try to get the lid back on Pandora's box but without actually wanting to touch it.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

fesuvious said:

Ooh, the comparison game;

So, Rape - to be considered a crime needs how many witnesses?

I don't believe Jesus sanctioned sex with a nine year old that he married?

And if you really, really want to play the 'murder' comparison; Tell me, what happens if you do not pay the Islamic tax for being a non-believer? What are the options?

And perhaps, even if you agree to the tax you could talk us through the process for paying it, as set out in the Koran?

And the Old Testament, that Jesus endorsed, demands the death penalty for wearing 2 different materials at the same time, and for working on a Sabbath. And if a stranger turns up at your door and you have an unmarried daughter at home, you have to offer her up for the sexual gratification of the visitor. Nice.

All holy books are full of vile st. The way to spread the nonsense is to murder people who believe different nonsense. They are mostly as bad as each other.

[Transmitter Man]

Wills2 said:

We're not a pub you can't just throw your citizens out, but I can see a time where we might see the return of internment.

This all started with the Arab spring and once again the West has misjudged the situation and backed the wrong horses.

We should have backed Assad, imagine what weapons IS would have had Cameron got his way and intervened in Syria, they'd probably be sat in Damascus right now.

We have proved over many decades that we don't understand the first thing about the middle east, but I still think that they would be killing each other whether we had meddled in their affairs or not.

Will,

If you'd do a little research on Assad & his father before him you'll find out that they're every bit as bad as IS and their prisons are notorious for torture leading in many cases to an appalling death.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Guam said:

The point we are making is a comparative analysis only really works if you take contemporary teachings from a similar historical period, so everything from The birth of Christ on, which is why folk call themselves Christian not Jews (think about that for a moment).

The new testament makes it quite clear that Christianity isn't a rejection of the old testament, but adding extra stuff to it.

[toppstuff]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Is that so?

Whose god orders the most violent plight for nonbelievers while on Earth. Allah or Christian god?
The Christian god because he ordered his followers to kill all those of a different religion, including family members, friends and even their cattle, whereas the Islamic god simply required the enslaving of nonbelievers . Bible says:

“If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people . . . If thou shalt hear . . . Certain men . . . have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword” (Deuteronomy13:6-15).

Koran say:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection” (Koran 9:29).

The bible is chock full of instructions to murder. Have a read of Leviticus.

This completely misses the point.

We are all well aware of Leviticus.

The point is this - aside from a few inbred nut jobs living in the southern parts of the US, Christianity largely takes an allegorical view of the bible or, at least, has evolved (even in the most evangelist of circles) to leave to one side the fire and brimstone stuff.

The Koran allows no such thing. Indeed, I believe the Koran expressly forbids people to take an allegorical perspective. It demands to be taken literally.

Even more pertinent is the simple fact that there is not a rampaging Christian army sweeping around the holy land murdering the innocent. There is no Christian movement compelling people to commit murder on the streets of London in the name of God.

Comparing the Bible to the Koran and saying "oh look the bible has bad stuff too " means absolutely nothing.

The problem is that Islam does not appear to be evolving. Indeed, Islam seems to be heading toward its biggest challenge - to prevent the faith being stolen by the radicals and poisoned for a generation in the eyes of the rest of the world.