Sir Cliff Richard

[MarshPhantom]

Welshbeef said:

carinaman said:

'There's no smoke without fire....

And that is what can ruins someone's career and personal life while being totally innocent.

Look at Freddy Star totally innocent but the stress has turned him from looking pretty normal for Freddy Star to being aged about 20 years and looking like its game over.
He will suffer the "no smoke" forever yet the persons who made the claims are never disclosed - horrible

Same for Cliff name tarnished with the same umbrella as J Saville

Freddy Star's career was dead in the water 30 years ago, nothing at all to do with being a labelled a nonce recently

[otolith]

Tony2or4 said:

otolith said:

"X has been charged with sexual offences against children. From this we infer that he is a child abuser."

And to complete the sentence: "...or to put it another way, the report implies that he is a child abuser."

(I'm with Dr Jekyll on the difference between the meanings of 'infer' and 'imply': we readers of the report do the inferring; the report itself does the implying.)

"X has been charged with sexual offences against children. There's no smoke without fire"

Would be to imply his guilt.

I appreciate that the words are often misused - I don't think BV did so.

[Tony2or4]

otolith said:

Tony2or4 said:

otolith said:

"X has been charged with sexual offences against children. From this we infer that he is a child abuser."

And to complete the sentence: "...or to put it another way, the report implies that he is a child abuser."

(I'm with Dr Jekyll on the difference between the meanings of 'infer' and 'imply': we readers of the report do the inferring; the report itself does the implying.)

"X has been charged with sexual offences against children. There's no smoke without fire"

Would be to imply his guilt.

That's exactly correct.

otolith said:

I appreciate that the words are often misused - I don't think BV did so.

I think he did: he used 'infer' when he meant 'imply', in exactly the sort of context of your example.

[pork911]

XCP said:

How is reporting a raid libellous?

iirc it was reported that he may sue for breach of privacy

[Transmitter Man]

MarshPhantom said:

Welshbeef said:

carinaman said:

'There's no smoke without fire....

And that is what can ruins someone's career and personal life while being totally innocent.

Look at Freddy Star totally innocent but the stress has turned him from looking pretty normal for Freddy Star to being aged about 20 years and looking like its game over.
He will suffer the "no smoke" forever yet the persons who made the claims are never disclosed - horrible

Same for Cliff name tarnished with the same umbrella as J Saville

Freddy Star's career was dead in the water 30 years ago, nothing at all to do with being a labelled a nonce recently

Marsh,

Some would disagree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S25SV4yrWVg

Phil

[anonymous-user]

Not that it matters much, but I was rather lazy to use infer and if on my best behaviour ought to use imply.

The media are usually very careful to avoid implying guilt when reporting on a criminal investigation, but from time to time they cross the line, accidentally or on purpose.

[Moonhawk]

carinaman said:

'There's no smoke without fire....

Actually there is. Smoke can be formed during pyrolysis - no "fire" required.

[mybrainhurts]

Moonhawk said:

carinaman said:

'There's no smoke without fire....

Actually there is. Smoke can be formed during pyrolysis - no "fire" required.

That's told him.

[Welshbeef]

MarshPhantom said:

Welshbeef said:

carinaman said:

'There's no smoke without fire....

And that is what can ruins someone's career and personal life while being totally innocent.

Look at Freddy Star totally innocent but the stress has turned him from looking pretty normal for Freddy Star to being aged about 20 years and looking like its game over.
He will suffer the "no smoke" forever yet the persons who made the claims are never disclosed - horrible

Same for Cliff name tarnished with the same umbrella as J Saville

Freddy Star's career was dead in the water 30 years ago, nothing at all to do with being a labelled a nonce recently

Was it wasn't is utterly subjective but being publically labelled a nonce and linked to Saville yewtree I'd imagine poor Freddie Starvhas feared for his life with vigilantes taking it upon themselves to threaten him. I wonder if some friends and family disowned him or everywhere he used to go out for meals simply refused him entry - everyone looking at him with vile disgust a nonce deserves.

Public apology to Freddie Star none.
Those who made the claims lives not impacted in anyway
His life without a doubt utterly ruined. Plus I'd wager future earnings drastically reduced and appearance fees dat zero.



As an aside what would happen IF let's say one of the most famous Xmas songs had such horrible links would that then be wiped from history? Never played again etc or would people just keep doing the same

[MarshPhantom]

On the news earlier that Dr Fox has been arrested again over 3 sexual assaults.

[J4CKO]

Welshbeef said:

Was it wasn't is utterly subjective but being publically labelled a nonce and linked to Saville yewtree I'd imagine poor Freddie Starvhas feared for his life with vigilantes taking it upon themselves to threaten him. I wonder if some friends and family disowned him or everywhere he used to go out for meals simply refused him entry - everyone looking at him with vile disgust a nonce deserves.

Public apology to Freddie Star none.
Those who made the claims lives not impacted in anyway
His life without a doubt utterly ruined. Plus I'd wager future earnings drastically reduced and appearance fees dat zero.



As an aside what would happen IF let's say one of the most famous Xmas songs had such horrible links would that then be wiped from history? Never played again etc or would people just keep doing the same

Mistletoe and Wine, don't think many would miss that pile of dung.

[Welshbeef]

J4CKO said:

Mistletoe and Wine, don't think many would miss that pile of dung.

What's that got to do with anything - if someone is wrongly accused of being a nonce do you think that's ok? How would you react in that situation? Potentially if you have your own company lose customers, or if your part of a company others may find it very difficult to work along side a nonce as such you might be exited from the company (innocent or not). What about if you have kids - I'm pretty sure the "your dad's a ducking nonce a kiddy fiddler" tag will stick throughout their school lives and I'd imagine would cause them serious problems one way or another.
You may have to move away and start all over again in a new area where no one knows you


So no its actually a very serious situation wrongly accused of such a crime and done publically rather than anonymously - which if innocent no one would ever know but if guilty then public is made aware.

[mybrainhurts]

J4CKO said:

Mistletoe and Wine, don't think many would miss that pile of dung.

Hope my ex doesn't see that. She has a hard cucumber, and she knows how to use it.

[Thorodin]

Surely reporting (by the first party) on an inference drawn by a reader (second party) does not change that inference to an implication in that it does not implicate anything, it merely reports. Otherwise factual reporting on tried cases that resulted in 'Not Guilty' would be minefields.

[anonymous-user]

A fair and accurate report of a court case is not actionable. It is legitimate to report that X was accused of doing Y. If, however, spin is placed on the story, the publisher may cross the line.

[HoHoHo]

mybrainhurts said:

Hope my ex doesn't see that. She has a hard cucumber, and she knows how to use it.

Ah, think I saw her the other day in 'well 'ard veg' on that home movie channel hornpub....thought she was acting but perhaps not

[Wacky Racer]

mybrainhurts said:

Hope my ex doesn't see that. She has a hard cucumber, and she knows how to use it.

Maybe that's why she dispensed with your "services".....

[FredericRobinson]

Welshbeef said:

As an aside what would happen IF let's say one of the most famous Xmas songs had such horrible links would that then be wiped from history? Never played again etc or would people just keep doing the same

Gary Glitter doesn't get much airtime or space on Christmas compilations these days

[Legacywr]

FredericRobinson said:

Gary Glitter doesn't get much airtime or space on Christmas compilations these days

Which I think is a bit unfair! It's not as if he will earn anything out it!

[defblade]

Tony2or4 said:

otolith said:

Tony2or4 said:

otolith said:

"X has been charged with sexual offences against children. From this we infer that he is a child abuser."

And to complete the sentence: "...or to put it another way, the report implies that he is a child abuser."

(I'm with Dr Jekyll on the difference between the meanings of 'infer' and 'imply': we readers of the report do the inferring; the report itself does the implying.)

"X has been charged with sexual offences against children. There's no smoke without fire"

Would be to imply his guilt.

That's exactly correct.

otolith said:

I appreciate that the words are often misused - I don't think BV did so.

I think he did: he used 'infer' when he meant 'imply', in exactly the sort of context of your example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtMU8nvZzOs