Sir Cliff Richard

[number 46]

I'm not aware of any kiddie type allegations against Vaz. I think that he is just your normal MP, fiddling his expenses and also financial fraud. Interesting that he was senior solicitor at Islington, wonder if that was at the same time as the redeemed M Hodge MP who was involved in some dodgy stuff re Islington council??? and child care???

[Rude-boy]

Vaz, not aware of any suggestion of direct impropriety but suspect he might have been in one of the post where concerns went past his desk but were not picked up on and acted upon? So, lack of time I have for him aside, I am not aware of there being likely to be anything worse at his door on this than 'should have spoken up about it' which seems to be a nice label for 1001 people on that topic.

Sir Cliff. Regardless of my distaste for his music (a few tunes might be let slip, but more due to covers ) I find the way that the Police are conduction their investigation concerning. It does appear to be a very 'investigation and trial by Media.' After all the words written on this if there is anything that makes it to court I would be concerned that the trail would indeed be fair. I also 'feel' that we do have another DLT here in that they will keep pushing until they find something, anything, that they can try to pin on him. And this is not to defend DLT but to illustrate how far from what the investigation started over it went in the interests of securing a conviction... At this rate I fear Sir Cliff might get sent down for something like theft having left Tesco's at some point in the 1970's with at least one item in the bottom of his trolley he didn't realise he hadn't paid for until he got home.

[rover 623gsi]

I often read on forums STOP DISCUSSING THIS THING OTHERWISE THE PERSON INVOLVED WILL NOT GET A FAIR TRAIL!!!!!!!!!

But is there any evidence to suggest that this has ever happened? Do celebrities (in particular) not get a fair trial?

[deadslow]

rover 623gsi said:

I often read on forums STOP DISCUSSING THIS THING OTHERWISE THE PERSON INVOLVED WILL NOT GET A FAIR TRAIL!!!!!!!!!

But is there any evidence to suggest that this has ever happened? Do celebrities (in particular) not get a fair trial?

anyone accused of rape/paedophilia always get more than a fair trial on here - victims always accused of being lying golddiggers and media of being hysterical. Makes you wonder about the actual make-up of PH

[mybrainhurts]

deadslow said:

rover 623gsi said:

I often read on forums STOP DISCUSSING THIS THING OTHERWISE THE PERSON INVOLVED WILL NOT GET A FAIR TRAIL!!!!!!!!!

But is there any evidence to suggest that this has ever happened? Do celebrities (in particular) not get a fair trial?

anyone accused of rape/paedophilia always get more than a fair trial on here - victims always accused of being lying golddiggers and media of being hysterical. Makes you wonder about the actual make-up of PH

True. There are some weirdos here who believe CO2 causes global warming. Unbelievable.

[anonymous-user]

Chim said:

Well the fact I pointed out that I care not who would tend to imply I am referring to all. This crime or any other, until charges are brought or trial commences it should not be in the public domain.

I agree there is work to be done around sex-offender stigma and what the CJS can do to reduce it. I perhaps assumed incorrectly you were, like others, implying this were unique publicity.

spaximus said:

But with DLT he was found innocent of the original accusations. It was only that they kept asking for more people to come forward that they did in the end find something to make stick.

Thereby showing the benefit of the high-profile nature giving victims the confidence to come forward.

spaximus said:

The sentence given was no more than a slap on the wrist, for something that he deserved a punch in the mouth for.

It was proportional to the offence.

spaximus said:

To my mind it is the same with Cliff at present. If they had a case that would stand up they would have gone for it already. By keeping it in the news adding more coming forward etc. they are still fishing for facts to try to build a case.

Historic investigations often take time. We don't know what information they're working from. Perhaps they had strong indications that there were more victims and that it was probable more would come forward. We don't know when and the rate or how many new people have come forward? Is it once a month, since the first, for example?

There's no rush.

spaximus said:

But if we look at this from a different angle, if someone was accused of rape and there was not enough evidence, would the police show a picture and ask women to come forward if they had been raped? That would never fly I suspect, however is this not exactly what they are doing with CR?

It depends if they had an indication of a serial offender as it would be built into the strategy from the off. If you're talking about a suspected single rapist and there were insufficient evidence, then no, they wouldn't.

It wasn't the police driving this publicity, it was the media, it's worth noting.

spaximus said:

I am just a bit uncomfortable with they way after Operation Yewtree went that fairness seems missing.

There's an equal proportion of people where no further action has been taken. I see nothing that suggests the evidence isn't being properly assessed.

deadslow said:

anyone accused of rape/paedophilia always get more than a fair trial on here - victims always accused of being lying golddiggers and media of being hysterical. Makes you wonder about the actual make-up of PH.

Too true. The defending of the likes of DLT and others when found NG was rather poor. The same with the guidance reminder around consent.

[carinaman]

What's the difference between the Cliff Richard supporters defending him online and deleting posts they don't agree with with the Council in Rotherham spending £160K of other people's money trying to take out a High Court injunction out against The Times to stop them exposing what was going on in Rotherham?

It's not as though Sir Cliff has ever driven a Minicab in Rotherham. Or worked in Taxi licencing in that city.

[carinaman]

Penultimate paragraph mentions a policy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31668493

Because nobody that's ever worked in the public sector has been subject to false allegations that have arisen to misuse or manipulate a policy have they?

Smells like a public sector bullying stitch up to me.

Fifth paragraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11440...

The media had been deliberately briefed and Vaz'z committee had a fortnight to think about their actions.

It could seem that South Yorks. Police and Keith Vaz are working to a common purpose.

[Claudia Skies]

"It is the committee who have acted as enablers to the media so that they could report on claims of new allegations about which our client has been given no or very little information; about which he has yet to be questioned; for which he has not been arrested; and of course, over which he has not been charged."

I guess we will have to wait and see where it all ends up.

[Thorodin]

Seems to me Vaz broke confidentiality rules. Revealing official letters to a Select Committee to the public about possibly upcoming legal action is one big no-no. But typical of the bag of wind.

[carinaman]

Thorodin said:

Seems to me Vaz broke confidentiality rules.

Surely not.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/29/ch...

With discretionary skills like that he'd be a shoe in for Rifkind's role on those security committees.

[Claudia Skies]

Completely OT

As it happens I Googled that expression a few days ago to check out its origins. Apparently the correct expression is "shoo-in", derived from an expression where people would, for instance, "shoo" chickens into a hen-house or "shoo away" unwelcome animals from a garden.

"The correct spelling is shoo-in, usually with a hyphen. It has been known in that spelling and with the meaning of a certain winner from the 1930s. It came from horse racing, where a shoo-in was the winner of a rigged race.

"In turn that seems to have come from the verb shoo, meaning to drive a person or an animal in a given direction by making noises or gestures."

You live and learn!

[Roo]

Slightly OT.

He doesn't live in the UK anymore, preferring to spend a lot of time in Portugal.

He's a Barbadian citizen due to spending a lot of time there.

So, even if they could get enough evidence together to press charges could he not just clear off somewhere and never be brought to trial?

[carinaman]

Claudia Skies said:

You live and learn!

Thank you. I like learning.

Roo said:

Slightly OT.

He doesn't live in the UK anymore, preferring to spend a lot of time in Portugal.

Does the BBC helicopter have an inflight refuelling capability?

[carinaman]

Front page of Times tomorrow 'Case against Cliff dropped'.

I suppose whichever Yorkshire police force it was could tow a banner around behind an aeroplane like the one Farage crashed in announcing that after they told the BBC where to fly their helicopter to get the best video footage of the raid on his apartment?

[mybrainhurts]

Roo said:

Slightly OT.

He doesn't live in the UK anymore, preferring to spend a lot of time in Portugal.

He's a Barbadian citizen due to spending a lot of time there.

So, even if they could get enough evidence together to press charges could he not just clear off somewhere and never be brought to trial?

Wish he would. No more danger of the warbling old fart cluttering up the air waves...deep joy...

[Monkeylegend]

mybrainhurts said:

Roo said:

Slightly OT.

He doesn't live in the UK anymore, preferring to spend a lot of time in Portugal.

He's a Barbadian citizen due to spending a lot of time there.

So, even if they could get enough evidence together to press charges could he not just clear off somewhere and never be brought to trial?

Wish he would. No more danger of the warbling old fart cluttering up the air waves...deep joy...

Don't bet on it, he's just released a new single, heard it on R2 on Friday.

[mybrainhurts]

Monkeylegend said:

mybrainhurts said:

Roo said:

Slightly OT.

He doesn't live in the UK anymore, preferring to spend a lot of time in Portugal.

He's a Barbadian citizen due to spending a lot of time there.

So, even if they could get enough evidence together to press charges could he not just clear off somewhere and never be brought to trial?

Wish he would. No more danger of the warbling old fart cluttering up the air waves...deep joy...

Don't bet on it, he's just released a new single, heard it on R2 on Friday.

The bd...

[Legacywr]

It's title is Golden, but, i bet it's more of a bronzy colour!

[Mr GrimNasty]

It'll probably be played to death, in order to prove everyone knew he was a good egg all along.